So wearing a Poppy is Political !

[Deleted member 15344]

No one should ever be forced to wear a poppy or indeed any symbol of rememberance - it's very sad for me that for some the poppy has turned into a political symbol and that for some it represents War Crimes or other incidents that have happened that has included the UK Armed Forces - at times the meaning of the poppy has been hi jacked which again IMO is wrong

For me it will always be about remembering those people a hundred years back and I will always wear one to remember them , I have organised getting the poppy flag for the club to put on the 16th and I'm proud of our armed forces past and present.

No one should ever be told they shouldn't be allowed to wear a poppy in the same way no one should ever be told they must wear one. James McClean is a perfect example - I don't agree with the poppy being a symbol for what happened in Derry but understand he has a right to be able to chose to wear one or not , same if any of the England or Scotland players didn't want to wear one - they should be able to make that choice without fear of repercussion- same if people did chose to wear one. James McClean has stated many times that he respects and remembers what people did in the World Wars and that's all anyone can ask

That's all I would ever ask of anyone - try and see passed all the political nonsense and take a moment to remember the fallen and that doesn't have to involve wearing a poppy

 

[bluewolf]

No one should ever be forced to wear a poppy or indeed any symbol of rememberance - it's very sad for me that for some the poppy has turned into a political symbol and that for some it represents War Crimes or other incidents that have happened that has included the UK Armed Forces - at times the meaning of the poppy has been hi jacked which again IMO is wrong

For me it will always be about remembering those people a hundred years back and I will always wear one to remember them , I have organised getting the poppy flag for the club to put on the 16th and I'm proud of our armed forces past and present.

No one should ever be told they shouldn't be allowed to wear a poppy in the same way no one should ever be told they must wear one. James McClean is a perfect example - I don't agree with the poppy being a symbol for what happened in Derry but understand he has a right to be able to chose to wear one or not , same if any of the England or Scotland players didn't want to wear one - they should be able to make that choice without fear of repercussion- same if people did chose to wear one. James McClean has stated many times that he respects and remembers what people did in the World Wars and that's all anyone can ask

That's all I would ever ask of anyone - try and see passed all the political nonsense and take a moment to remember the fallen and that doesn't have to involve wearing a poppy

Good post mate. I agree. We may disagree on whether the Poppy should be in the shirt but we agree on everything else.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

No one should ever be forced to wear a poppy or indeed any symbol of rememberance - it's very sad for me that for some the poppy has turned into a political symbol and that for some it represents War Crimes or other incidents that have happened that has included the UK Armed Forces - at times the meaning of the poppy has been hi jacked which again IMO is wrong

For me it will always be about remembering those people a hundred years back and I will always wear one to remember them , I have organised getting the poppy flag for the club to put on the 16th and I'm proud of our armed forces past and present.

No one should ever be told they shouldn't be allowed to wear a poppy in the same way no one should ever be told they must wear one. James McClean is a perfect example - I don't agree with the poppy being a symbol for what happened in Derry but understand he has a right to be able to chose to wear one or not , same if any of the England or Scotland players didn't want to wear one - they should be able to make that choice without fear of repercussion- same if people did chose to wear one. James McClean has stated many times that he respects and remembers what people did in the World Wars and that's all anyone can ask

That's all I would ever ask of anyone - try and see passed all the political nonsense and take a moment to remember the fallen and that doesn't have to involve wearing a poppy

Sorry Phil, McCleans reasons are Political nothing more, he wasn't born when Bloody Sunday happened, it's a stance against the British Government.
Whether he is right or wrong is down to each and everyone one of us to decide, but you can't ignore the fact that the Poppy has been and always will be seen as a political symbol by some, you and I may not see it as a political symbol, but that doesn't make the others wrong.

 

[bluewolf]

Sorry Phil, McCleans reasons are Political nothing more, he wasn't born when Bloody Sunday happened, it's a stance against the British Government.
Whether he is right or wrong is down to each and everyone one of us to decide, but you can't ignore the fact that the Poppy has been and always will be seen as a political symbol by some, you and I may not see it as a political symbol, but that doesn't make the others wrong.

I'm not sure Paul mate, but I think you're agreeing with Phil here..

 

[Deleted member 16999]

I'm not sure Paul mate, but I think you're agreeing with Phil here..

I only disagree with him about what the Poppy means, and no matter how many times it's repeated what it means to the RBL and others, to some it is a Political Symbol and will never be seen as anything else.

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Saw this posted on the football forum im a member of.. ]

"It's a fad that started a few years ago. England played Sweden on November 10th in 2001 with no poppy or armband and zero ****'s were given by anyone.

The idea it is part of our "football history" is nonsense."

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Saw this posted on the football forum im a member of.. ]

"It's a fad that started a few years ago. England played Sweden on November 10th in 2001 with no poppy or armband and zero ****'s were given by anyone.

The idea it is part of our "football history" is nonsense."

Nobody said it was part of our Football History and nobody who is aware of Football History would claim it is.
Premier League teams only started wearing them in 2010.

Not really sure what it has to do whether wearing the Poppy is political?

 

[Blue in Munich]

On the 25th of December 1914, the British & German armies managed to stop slaughtering each other for long enough to play a game of football and share a beer.

On the 11th of November 2016, 100 years after the Battle of the Somme, England and Scotland will play each other and wish to wear poppies as a mark of respect to the dead.

FIFA, an organisation that appears to have been remarkably short on morals and scruples over the years has threatened both teams with sanctions if they carry out this act of remembrance & respect because it is allegedly in breach of their rules; a rule they have previously allowed an exception to for the same thing.

Have we not come very far in 102 years or have we left the decision to the wrong people? I don't have a lot of time for the FA but they are absolutely right to ignore FIFA on this one in my opinion.

 

[Sweep]

So it's a different issue, but it's not an issue. I may not be the brightest bulb in the ceiling, but I'm struggling to see where I've misinterpreted your comment.

Maybe it's because you conveniently missed off the first line of my post:
"Unless the player has an option?"
sorry if this doesn't fit your narrative

 

[Sweep]

I expect many of them will give a hoot before the match and after. But during the 90 minutes of the game they won't give it the slightest thought. Nor would you I expect..

But I fear you miss my point. Choosing whether or not to wear a poppy is an entirely voluntary choice. As soon as you are made to choose by a third party, then it is no longer a voluntary choice and you take away the persons right to keep their own view to themselves.. I wear mine when and where of my own choosing - but if and when someone tells me I should be wearing one then they are merely imposing their morals on me - and I'm likely to tell them where to stick theirs.

That's me out now ...

I don't miss your point and I entirely agree

 

[Sweep]

On the 25th of December 1914, the British & German armies managed to stop slaughtering each other for long enough to play a game of football and share a beer.

On the 11th of November 2016, 100 years after the Battle of the Somme, England and Scotland will play each other and wish to wear poppies as a mark of respect to the dead.

FIFA, an organisation that appears to have been remarkably short on morals and scruples over the years has threatened both teams with sanctions if they carry out this act of remembrance & respect because it is allegedly in breach of their rules; a rule they have previously allowed an exception to for the same thing.

Have we not come very far in 102 years or have we left the decision to the wrong people? I don't have a lot of time for the FA but they are absolutely right to ignore FIFA on this one in my opinion.

Great post!

 

[SocketRocket]

Is the Poppy Political? I guess it depends on what you perceive it to represent. If it represents the men and women of this nation that lost their lives or were disabled while serving in wars then their service was heroic and we should remember, honor and where surviving support them.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

It is heroic to many but not to the people they fought against. Not heroic to plenty in the Middle East where we have been interfering for the last 15+ years. Soldiers don't choose to go there but they do and many innocents have died. The money from poppy sales go to help soldiers who have fought, it is not just about remembering. Failing to see how this could offend some people in other countries who have been affected by our interference is totally blind and naive. Poppies are for us, we can't expect the rest of the world to agree.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It is heroic to many but not to the people they fought against. Not heroic to plenty in the Middle East where we have been interfering for the last 15+ years. Soldiers don't choose to go there but they do and many innocents have died. The money from poppy sales go to help soldiers who have fought, it is not just about remembering. Failing to see how this could offend some people in other countries who have been affected by our interference is totally blind and naive. Poppies are for us, we can't expect the rest of the world to agree.

When has anyone expected the rest of the world to agree ? Not one single person has mentioned anyone in the rest of the world to wear or poppy

The poppy is about the First World War and the people they fought against also remember those days and the actions of many

Money goes to people who put their lives on the line many years ago and now maybe struggling because the government that sent them there don't support them.

If people don't want to wear a poppy or support or remember because of recent events in the Middle East then point the finger at governments not the boots on the ground who are just doing their job to try and make it a safer place for you and i

 

[guest100718]

To some they are very much a political symbol and certainly in the last few years the wearing or not has become stick for the pro offended to beat people with. Not content with harranging TV presenters etc for not wesaring one, they come out with nonsene about the leaf having to be at 11 o clock.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

The moment you want to put poppies on a shirt of a FIFA qualifying match when they expressly state it is against their rules is when you are expecting world approval. FIFA rules are set by all countries and they state the Poppy is a political symbol. Poppies and soldiers go together, that is the point of them, and you can't expect other countries to agree to a symbol that backs our military personnel. The floodgates then open to a whole host of controversies.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

When has anyone expected the rest of the world to agree ? Not one single person has mentioned anyone in the rest of the world to wear or poppy

The poppy is about the First World War and the people they fought against also remember those days and the actions of many

Money goes to people who put their lives on the line many years ago and now maybe struggling because the government that sent them there don't support them.

If people don't want to wear a poppy or support or remember because of recent events in the Middle East then point the finger at governments not the boots on the ground who are just doing their job to try and make it a safer place for you and i

I don't think there are there any WWI soldiers still alive ?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The moment you want to put poppies on a shirt of a FIFA qualifying match when they expressly state it is against their rules is when you are expecting world approval. FIFA rules are set by all countries and they state the Poppy is a political symbol. Poppies and soldiers go together, that is the point of them, and you can't expect other countries to agree to a symbol that backs our military personnel. The floodgates then open to a whole host of controversies.

FIFA state that the poppy is a political symbol

The FA clearly state it's a symbol of remembrance and that's why the players will wear a poppy - to remember not to make any political statement ( like you saw with Argentina and their Falklands flag ).

FIFA have made a decision about something that is actually nothing to do with them in regards the meaning of the poppy - the people that organise the Poppy Appeal and the people who started the Poppy rememberance all clearly state it is not a political statement - since when did FIFA believe they have the authority to change the meaning of the Poppy.

When FIFA sort out their own morals and corruption then they can start to think about making judgements about others

When they fine the FA and Scottish FA i hope both FA refuse and take it to court then they can attempt to prove it's a political statement.

The poppy is nothing to do with FIFA or indeed any other country that doesn't wish to use it as asked symbol of remembrance.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

FIFA state that the poppy is a political symbol

The FA clearly state it's a symbol of remembrance and that's why the players will wear a poppy - to remember not to make any political statement ( like you saw with Argentina and their Falklands flag ).

FIFA have made a decision about something that is actually nothing to do with them in regards the meaning of the poppy - the people that organise the Poppy Appeal and the people who started the Poppy rememberance all clearly state it is not a political statement - since when did FIFA believe they have the authority to change the meaning of the Poppy.

When FIFA sort out their own morals and corruption then they can start to think about making judgements about others

When they fine the FA and Scottish FA i hope both FA refuse and take it to court then they can attempt to prove it's a political statement.

The poppy is nothing to do with FIFA or indeed any other country that doesn't wish to use it as asked symbol of remembrance.

You really can't be serious to dismiss how it's seen by others,
Why then do you defend people's rights not to wear one when their motive is purely political?

 

[Imurg]

FIFA state that the poppy is a political symbol
.

And that is the crux of the whole argument.
How you, me, The Queen, RBL, the bloke down the street or his Aunt view it isn't the issue.
It's how other Nations/religions view it.
Others, whether we like it or not, view it as a Political symbol.
Can't you see that..?
If FIFA, rightly or wrongly, have deemed it Political then to display a poppy on a football kit breaches their rules - rules we have signed up to by being a member .
And as has been said, during the game I want the English players to be concentrating on beating Scotland, not remembering the fallen. There's times and places for that and in the middle of a football match isn't one of them. Plenty of time before and after.