So it’s all about the shaft?

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Alex1975

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So it’s all about the shaft?

I am really interested in this whole “the shaft is the engine” thing. In quite a few posts in the last little while some of the guys who seem to know what they are talking about say that the shaft is where it is at when it comes to a club fitting someone’s swing. Now I know that a club cannot fix a bad swing so that is not what I am talking about.


If I found the shaft that best worked for me, could I put pretty much any head with it that was about the same weight and get a pretty similar result? It would make an interesting experiment.


If this is the case, how is it that we see the big names in the magazines and on TV for club manufactures but they actually in many cases only made half the product. Is it simply that the average consumer just wants the whole product as it comes. I don’t know about fishing but I am guessing you do not buy just a fishing rod, you get the one for the job and the real for the type of fishing or weather or line weight or whatever.


Alex
 
The biggest market for shafts is club manufacturers though. They don't often sell directly to the public, as not many people (Craw excepted) want to faff about pulling shafts and trying things out. This is also more expensive than buying new clubs (or can be).

Yes, the shaft is the engine, but there is slightly more to it than that. For drivers, a lower swing speed needs a higher spinning head, to get the ball airborne, a high swing speed needs a lower spinning head to keep the ball down.

You also need the correct loft for your swing / shaft combo.

In irons, once you select an iron from the correct band, SGI, GI, players, etc to suit your ball striking consistency, then I can't see much difference between manufacturers. It all comes down to what suits your eye. The shaft is most important.
 
I totally get that the shaft manufactures make alot more/easier money by selling to the club manufactures but this is surly backwards. If the shaft is the main part of the club, the part that makes the most difference to the user then why are they not the ones buying heads from Taylor Made or Ping and why don’t we call out clubs True Temper or whatever.

Also, if the shaft is the daddy then by going to AG and buying a set of Taylor Made Burner 2 you have a very small percentage chance that the shaft in that is going to be right for your swing. I get the feeling Bob was right and the golfers of today are getting mugged off, not because the clubs are not great but because they are sold in the wrong way.
 
But if you get c/f'ed, which is what the manufacturers advise, you do get all the right bits.

If you buy off the rack, try before you buy. If you can hit them, then fine.

Can't see the problem.
 
Good post Alex, I am interested in this too after the comments you have referred to.

I understand that having the wrong shaft can be a big problem (e.g X Stiff if we need Regular) but isn't the same true with heads (e.g using a blade if we need an SGI).

I also understand that different shafts with about the same flex will produce slightly different results (Project X will produce a different flight from Dynamic Gold) but again isn't this the same for heads as weight distribution, moi, offset, etc will effect flight to a similar extent.

Is'nt it more a question of the combination of head and shaft that produces the optimum or desired flight characteristics and won't the right shaft in the wrong head for you be just as wrong as the wrong shaft in the right head?

To use the engine analogy, if the shaft is like the engine, is the head effectively like the chassis, it translates the power to the ball like a chassis translates the power to the road? You need the right engine/chassis combination for optimum performance. In which case they are equally important.

(PS I am not a petrol head so hope the engine/chassis analogy isn't embarrassingly wrong)
 
But if you get c/f'ed, which is what the manufacturers advise, you do get all the right bits.

If you buy off the rack, try before you buy. If you can hit them, then fine.

Can't see the problem.
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Do you even think that 1% of golfers have been custom fitted, I bet its more like 0.1%
 
Do you even think that 1% of golfers have been custom fitted, I bet its more like 0.1%
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I was about to say the same thing, and even those that have been custom fit can't necessarily play very well :D

Like Bob said in another thread, it's better to learn to swing properly than think the club is going to fix everything.... oops!, does that take this thread off topic? :D
 
Do you even think that 1% of golfers have been custom fitted, I bet its more like 0.1%
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I was about to say the same thing, and even those that have been custom fit can't necessarily play very well :D

Like Bob said in another thread, it's better to learn to swing properly than think the clubis going to fix everything.... oops!, does that take this thread off topic? :D
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Ye I sort of said about the swing thing in the OP, Its more interesting to me that the shaft is the personal bit and what has come out of this is the feeling that we are sold to in a very lazy way.
 
The likes of Ping, Titleist and Mizuno have been banging on about c/f for ages. It isn't their fault that idiots still buy off the rack.
 
The likes of Ping, Titleist and Mizuno have been banging on about c/f for ages. It isn't their fault that idiots still buy off the rack.
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or struggling scientists with a wife with expensive taste to support who cannot afford to custom fit but only buy off the rack or second hand.
 
I have a little black mark on my driver shaft from my old worn out golf back, I hope that doesnt affect its performance!
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We will all get bag rash on graphite shafts it's more than likely just a bit of paint thats come off. however do be aware if you start damaging the graphite it will affect it's perfromance. when you next buy a bag ask if it's graphite friendly most bags are these days.
 
The likes of Ping, Titleist and Mizuno have been banging on about c/f for ages. It isn't their fault that idiots still buy off the rack.
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or struggling scientists with a wife with expensive taste to support who cannot afford to custom fit but only buy off the rack or second hand.
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Ping retro fit for loft, lie, grip and shaft length, even on second hand clubs so c/f is still an option provided you get the right shaft flex.

Most other makes either don't charge for c/f, or deduct it from the purchase price.

If you were buying second hand Mizunos (for instance), it costs about £25 max to be c/f. Then buy your second hand clubs with the correct shaft already fitted. All you need then is to get your pro to loft and lie them for you. Wouldn't cost that much more.

Back to the OP, I don't see how any one can moan about how 2nd hand clubs are sold. The shaft manufacturers can't influence this at all.
 
I don't think this is a c/f vs off the shelf thread. It's about whether the shaft or head is the most important element of the club and if it's the shaft why isn't this a bigger element in golf club marketing. That's a seperate debate.

What Alex is saying I think, is that as there is so much emphasis on this forum by many knowledgable people that the shaft is more important, then why isn't the shaft promoted more obviously by the shaft manufacturers as the deciding factor in club choice. This applies whether we get custom fitted or buy off the shelf.

I remember in the old days seeing lots of shaft ads in golf magazines for the likes of Apollo, TT and Aldila, but you don't see them now even though there are more shafts on offer. I've never seen a KBS or Nippon ad in a magazine. On the other hand the club (head) maunfacturers all promote their latest head designs very heavily.
 
..... I've never seen a KBS or Nippon ad in a magazine. On the other hand the club (head) maunfacturers all promote their latest head designs very heavily.
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Steady on, could you imagine the amount of new posts on here if there was as wide a selection of shafts as there are heads!!!! :eek: :D
 
I'm converted and willing to be told at my forthcoming CF session exactly what shaft suits my swing. I play regs in my irons and stiffs in my woods, all I want is confirmation that is the correct or not and then the rest is down to me!!

If you're in any doubt why the shaft flex is important (as I was) take a look at the Harrington clip here below. Pause it on 1:12 and just see the shape of the shaft. I appreciate that different shafts will flex in different ways so Harrington will no doubt have some trouble if somebody switched his shaft for one that is a lot softer!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPyfoIgq588
 
I don't think this is a c/f vs off the shelf thread. It's about whether the shaft or head is the most important element of the club and if it's the shaft why isn't this a bigger element in golf club marketing. That's a seperate debate.

What Alex is saying I think, is that as there is so much emphasis on this forum by many knowledgable people that the shaft is more important, then why isn't the shaft promoted more obviously by the shaft manufacturers as the deciding factor in club choice. This applies whether we get custom fitted or buy off the shelf.

I remember in the old days seeing lots of shaft ads in golf magazines for the likes of Apollo, TT and Aldila, but you don't see them now even though there are more shafts on offer. I've never seen a KBS or Nippon ad in a magazine. On the other hand the club (head) maunfacturers all promote their latest head designs very heavily.
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All the replys are intereting to me, but this is what I was on about.
 
I'm converted and willing to be told at my forthcoming CF session exactly what shaft suits my swing. I play regs in my irons and stiffs in my woods, all I want is confirmation that is the correct or not and then the rest is down to me!!
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It's all about the characteristics of the shaft as well as what stiffness they are. If you get told your swing speed is x mph and you should get stiff shafts in your irons. that really isn't CF, but just a pointer to what you should be looking at. It's the dispersion and flight with each shaft that you are really looking for. So it could be A hits it two yards further than B or C but has a 20% larger dispersion area compared to C and 25% larger than B. But you don't want the high flight of C as you play a windy course so you would choose B .
 
The shaft is much more important. Give a middle handicapper a blade with the right shaft and they will probably get better results than with a cavity back and the wrong shaft. Flex and weight are obviously important, but launch angle and spin are also important.

So, for example, TT DG launch low, but has higher spin, so the ball then climbs and for some players then drops out of the sky. Project X and KBS launch higher (although still not high), but the ball flies flatter with less spin.

Decent custom fitting with a launch monitor is needed to see all this stuff.
 
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