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Simon Dyson hearing

Tommo21 said:
He still cheated...........he didnt just tap any bit down, he tapped the spike mark..............if that was subconcious then he's thick.

Oh, I broke the rules, a rule that we all know, but I happen to have a subconcious reflex because I seen the spike mark and I didnt want to miss the putt.

Okay thats sarcastic...........but you can give him the benefit of the doubt, I’m not.
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But Tommo the guy has tapped down countless spike marks in his golfing life, so its not as if its an unusual act, in this case its just the order in which he did it that caused the mistake (in relation to putting out I mean)
 
Tommo21 said:
He still cheated...........he didnt just tap any bit down, he tapped the spike mark..............if that was subconcious then he's thick.

Oh, I broke the rules, a rule that we all know, but I happen to have a subconcious reflex because I seen the spike mark and I didnt want to miss the putt.

Okay thats sarcastic...........but you can give him the benefit of the doubt, I’m not.
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That much has been clear from the start.
 
Tommo21 said:
He still cheated...........he didnt just tap any bit down, he tapped the spike mark..............if that was subconcious then he's thick.

Oh, I broke the rules, a rule that we all know, but I happen to have a subconcious reflex because I seen the spike mark and I didnt want to miss the putt.

Okay thats sarcastic...........but you can give him the benefit of the doubt, I’m not.
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It's a rule that is stuck in the mind too. Many people see it as an unfair rule so it stays on the mind.

If he did it subconsciously, I'd be very surprised if he never realised immediately almost as though he'd had an electric shock.

I've thrown a coin down and marked my ball on the fringe once before, almost dropped the ball as I picked it up knowing that I'd had that brain fart.

The more this incident is shown, the more it appears to be a conscious effort.

But...........only ONE person knows for absolutely sure.
 
Robobum said:
It's a rule that is stuck in the mind too. Many people see it as an unfair rule so it stays on the mind.

If he did it subconsciously, I'd be very surprised if he never realised immediately almost as though he'd had an electric shock.

I've thrown a coin down and marked my ball on the fringe once before, almost dropped the ball as I picked it up knowing that I'd had that brain fart.

The more this incident is shown, the more it appears to be a conscious effort.

But...........only ONE person knows for absolutely sure.
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And he says he didn't realise until he was shown the replay, so unless we're calling him a liar now as well, that should be that.
 
HawkeyeMS said:
And he says he didn't realise until he was shown the replay, so unless we're calling him a liar now as well, that should be that.
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As per last line - only ONE person knows for sure. No mater how hard anyone protests his innocence or otherwise.
 
Sometimes you so into the moment or in the zone as they say you just are not aware of what you just done as your mind is on your next shot or other things but only he knows that , has there been any other incidents in the past ? but to call him a cheat is a big call and the Tour as acted and the matter is now closed but others will watch him and he will always have that now and has to live with that , Gary Player was called as well in years gone by , like I sais sometimes you so in the zone you cant remember your actions , that's my take on it and if it does happen again then he will be finished ....................EYG
 
Can we agree that tapping down spike marks and imperfections is not only allowed it’s positively encouraged?

Can we agree that in itself it’s a completely natural and instinctive thing for a pro to do?

That it’s done on every course every day of every week... The only stipulation is to do it after putting out

Is it not then possible (even just using the law of averages) that at some point someone somewhere was going to make a genuine mistake and tap down before putting out
(perhaps when distracted after missing a putt well past the hole just 7 or 8 seconds before)

Does the above not seem more plausible than a deliberate act of cheating in front of FC’s, caddies, TV cameras, officials, spectators etc etc?

As for when he was aware? well as Robobum says only he knows that truth and given what I actually know/have seen it's not enough for me to call him a liar
 
Slab said:
But Tommo the guy has tapped down countless spike marks in his golfing life, so its not as if its an unusual act, in this case its just the order in which he did it that caused the mistake (in relation to putting out I mean)
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That is funny...........You don't honestly think he got the order mixed up. I mean he didnt pick up his ball then mark it.

Stop making excuses for him. People with much better knowledge, experience and wisdom have him sussed.
 
Looking at the replays it looks really bad to me. I cant see how he can explain it as a brain fart or whatever. Hes looking in the direction of the ball all the way as he walks up to it. He looks pretty deliberate when pressing this thing down and just look at how quick he looks around to see if he had been busted. Very twitchy looking as he walked away too.

Nobody can say for certain if he did it on purpose or not but for me if I had to decide looking at the replay I would say he was trying to pull a fast one imo. I initially defended him but his body language just isn't right on the replay, not natural at all.
 
Birchy said:
Looking at the replays it looks really bad to me. I cant see how he can explain it as a brain fart or whatever. Hes looking in the direction of the ball all the way as he walks up to it. He looks pretty deliberate when pressing this thing down and just look at how quick he looks around to see if he had been busted. Very twitchy looking as he walked away too.

Nobody can say for certain if he did it on purpose or not but for me if I had to decide looking at the replay I would say he was trying to pull a fast one imo. I initially defended him but his body language just isn't right on the replay, not natural at all.
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He's a very twitchy person anyway to be fair.
 
Tommo21 said:
That is funny...........You don't honestly think he got the order mixed up. I mean he didnt pick up his ball then mark it.

Stop making excuses for him. People with much better knowledge, experience and wisdom have him sussed.
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Re my bold: no I don't think he deliberately mixed up the order, I think that when he did it he wasn't aware that he'd mixed up the order

Quote: "People with much better knowledge, experience and wisdom have him sussed"

Was going to reply to this but I'll leave personal aspersions out of it as we have a good debate going here...
 
You can make up your mind to go out and murder someone or you can have a mental aberration and murder someone in a split second - the offence in a court room is either murder or manslaughter. Intent to do something against the rules/law is always penalised harsher, I can't personally believe that SD would have decided that the rules didn't apply to him so he'd ignore them and do what he wanted. If SD is a cheat, so is Rory and also most of us, we all break the rules and a lot of people don't even know they have - they are not cheats.

This does not make him a cheat
 
chrisd said:
You can make up your mind to go out and murder someone or you can have a mental aberration and murder someone in a split second - the offence in a court room is either murder or manslaughter. Intent to do something against the rules/law is always penalised harsher, I can't personally believe that SD would have decided that the rules didn't apply to him so he'd ignore them and do what he wanted. If SD is a cheat, so is Rory and also most of us, we all break the rules and a lot of people don't even know they have - they are not cheats.

This does not make him a cheat
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Agree. No one but SD knows if it was deliberate cheating or not. So, we've all got a choice to make. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and let it pass. Today seems like a day for forgiveness not pettyness....
 
I think it was just a mental aberration, nothing premeditated.
"Dyson was investigated for a rules infraction committed during the 2009 Portuguese Open. He was penalized two strokes under Rule 13-2 (“Improving Lie, Area of Intended Swing or Stance, or Line of Play”) after being deemed to have improved his stance after his ball ended up at the base of a bush. The 15-man tournament committee considered the breach serious enough to discuss it at a committee meeting. The committee consulted John Paramor, the European Tour’s chief referee, but no further action was taken. Although the incident was caught on video, officials determined that the camera angle did not provide conclusive evidence that Dyson intentionally had sought to gain an advantage."
The above is the only other infringement he has been accused of that I have found. I personally think this is a tough rule to actually police accurately, I think many people inadvertently break it ...

I don't think he is a cheat and nor would I label him a cheat. I think his punishment and fine are too much, being DQ'd is enough in my opinion and a brief explanation to the player as to why.
 
Robobum said:
As per last line - only ONE person knows for sure. No mater how hard anyone protests his innocence or otherwise.
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and golf should be a game of golf , trust and integrity - if people start doubting that then golf will start to go down the route of other sports.
 
Tommo21 said:
That is funny...........You don't honestly think he got the order mixed up. I mean he didnt pick up his ball then mark it.

Stop making excuses for him. People with much better knowledge, experience and wisdom have him sussed.
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Have him sussed ?!

Who exactly has him sussed ?

Have we lost now at heart what is so good at golf when people start to question golfers actions ?
 
richart said:
I haven't read the whole of this thread, but to me there seems to be two problems with what Dyson did, and I find it difficult to believe both were unintentional mistakes.

Firstly he pushed down a spike mark with his ball. To me a professional golfer would just not do this, it is not a natural act even if his brain had switched off. For arguments sake lets say he did do it accidentally, then secondly he must have realised as soon as he had done it his mistake and should then have called a penalty on himself which he didn't.

When I watched the video the first time, I noticed the large spike mark as soon as his ball rolled past the hole, and thought it could finish on his line. He must have seen it as he walked up to his ball, so had time to engage his golf brain.

Just my opinion of course.
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For all those that think it was just an accident, please reply to the above.

Once you have marked your ball you naturally pick it up, not start to push the ground down with it. When you have repaired a pitchmark, you use your putter to tap down the ground, not your golf ball.

I don't see that this incident compares with someone not knowing a rule, and so breaking it. That is ignorance, Simon Dyson must know the rules regarding spike marks, as he comes across them on every hole he plays, most days of the week.
 
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