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Simon Dyson hearing

Simon Dyson was found guilty of cheating by the European Tour’s disciplinary panel on Thursday....

Can you believe the opening line of the Daily Mails reporting of the story!!
 
Slab said:
Simon Dyson was found guilty of cheating by the European Tour’s disciplinary panel on Thursday....

Can you believe the opening line of the Daily Mails reporting of the story!!
Click to expand...

That's exactly the line they were using last night on Sky Sports

It's not factually correct but it makes a better headline

This is going you ruin him
 
Liverpoolphil said:
That's exactly the line they were using last night on Sky Sports

It's not factually correct but it makes a better headline

This is going you ruin him
Click to expand...

Yeah they seem to be using it as a case of not premeditated cheating but still cheating

i.e all premeditated cheating is cheating but not all cheating is premeditated...but I'm not sure that works :confused:
 
Tommo21 said:
Thats the way I always play it.
Click to expand...

That's the safest way, although not a requirement. Say you had just putted from a distance and everyone else was within a few feet of the hole, there would be no problem with your repairing a spike mark where you were as it would be so far away from the hole that noone would end up there, even with an overshoot.
 
I shall not be issuing any apologies to anybody over my earlier comments in this thread. I stated I had heard that things didn't look good for him, and although he escaped an outright ban, the damage has been done to his reputation and that will never go away. Regardless of whether his actions were pre-meditated or not, he was not found to be totally innocent, therefore there is a proportion of guilt attributable to him according to the disciplinary panel. The stigma of this will be with him for the rest of his career. What would you think about someone at your club who the committee had penalised for this offence, what would his reputation be within the club? In that respect the punishment handed out was tough.
 
Wildrover said:
I shall not be issuing any apologies to anybody over my earlier comments in this thread. I stated I had heard that things didn't look good for him, and although he escaped an outright ban, the damage has been done to his reputation and that will never go away. Regardless of whether his actions were pre-meditated or not, he was not found to be totally innocent, therefore there is a proportion of guilt attributable to him according to the disciplinary panel. The stigma of this will be with him for the rest of his career. What would you think about someone at your club who the committee had penalised for this offence, what would his reputation be within the club? In that respect the punishment handed out was tough.
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Yes he was guilty of breaking the code of conduct expected by the ET, that doesn't make him a cheat, it means he made a stupid mistake.

If someone at my club had done this once by mistake, I'd accept it for what it was, a mistake. There are unfortunately too many people who want to castigate others for simple mistakes, which is fine for anyone who has never made an honest mistake but for the other 100%, it doesn't reflect well.
 
Slab said:
Yeah they seem to be using it as a case of not premeditated cheating but still cheating

i.e all premeditated cheating is cheating but not all cheating is premeditated...but I'm not sure that works :confused:
Click to expand...

A cheat is someone who deliberately violates the rules, Simon Dyson didn't deliberately violate the rules, he is therefore not a cheat.
 
This whole fiasco has me bewildered.

The official tour statement states (in summary):
- On this occasion it seems they say he deliberately touched the line of his putt, despite knowing the rules, with the purpose of improving his position.
- This was not premeditated cheating

These two statement seem very contradictory to me. The first is basically saying he cheated then the second is saying he did not plan to cheat.

His punishment to date is a DQ, a fine and costs of £37,500 and a suspended ban of 2 months. In addition he will have this label of cheat hanging over him forever. It all seems quite bizarre to me.
 
Matty said:
This whole fiasco has me bewildered.

The official tour statement states (in summary):
- On this occasion it seems they say he deliberately touched the line of his putt, despite knowing the rules, with the purpose of improving his position.
- This was not premeditated cheating

These two statement seem very contradictory to me. The first is basically saying he cheated then the second is saying he did not plan to cheat.

His punishment to date is a DQ, a fine and costs of £37,500 and a suspended ban of 2 months. In addition he will have this label of cheat hanging over him forever. It all seems quite bizarre to me.
Click to expand...

The first is saying he broke the rules, the second is saying he didn't cheat. You can break the rules and not be a cheat. As said earlier, Rory broke the rules when he brushed sand off the fringe, if Luke hadn't pointed it out, he wouldn't have realised his mistake, does that make him a cheat as well?
 
Matty said:
This whole fiasco has me bewildered.

The official tour statement states (in summary):
- On this occasion it seems they say he deliberately touched the line of his putt, despite knowing the rules, with the purpose of improving his position.
- This was not premeditated cheating

These two statement seem very contradictory to me. The first is basically saying he cheated then the second is saying he did not plan to cheat.

His punishment to date is a DQ, a fine and costs of £37,500 and a suspended ban of 2 months. In addition he will have this label of cheat hanging over him forever. It all seems quite bizarre to me.
Click to expand...

I think what they're saying is that while he had prior knowledge of that rule (& others) it wasn't a deliberate or premeditated act to not apply the rule to his actions at that time
 
HawkeyeMS said:
A cheat is someone who deliberately violates the rules, Simon Dyson didn't deliberately violate the rules, he is therefore not a cheat.
Click to expand...

Take two.............SD putts past the hole..........he markes his ball........then taps down a mark in front of his ball.


He would need to see that mark, it would need to registar in his brain as he was marking or about to mark. He would need to decide to cheat by tapping it down. You can take this apart then put it together again all day long, but he tried to cheat by breaking the rules that every golfer knows.

If that was not deliberate then I never posted this on here.
 
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Tommo21 said:
Take two.............SD putts past the hole..........he markes his ball........then taps down a mark in front of his ball.


He would need to see that mark, it would need to registar in his brain as he was marking or about to mark. He would need to decide to cheat by tapping it down. You can take this appart then put it together again all day long, but he tried to cheat by breaking the rules that every golfer knows.

If that was not deliberate then I never posted this on here.
Click to expand...

Have you never heard of subconcious actions or reflexes, have you never ever in your life done something without realising you were doing it or without thinking? If you can answer no to those things then you're a robot.
 
doublebogey7 said:
Liverpoolphil said:
Ok lets I'll try once more. Rory whilst removing sand from the fringe of the green is advised by his playing partner that it is against the rules to do so. Rory immediately realises his error, having forgot that sand may only be removed from the line of put when on the green, and adds a 2 shot penalty to his score. We do not know whether Rory would or wouldn't have realised the error before submitting his card has Luke not said anything.

SD taps down a spike mark in front of his ball when marking it, spike marks may not be tapped down when on the line in any circumstance. No one had the time notices, but SD has a considerable amount of time to realise the error before submitting his card and fails to do so.

Now you may think the differences do not warrant different treatment but there are clear differences between the two.
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What a load of garbage. If I understand you correctly you are saying that Rory did something that he is not allowed to do in any circumstance (brushing sand off his line when not on the green) and Dyson did something that he is not allowed to do in any circumstance (touched the line of his putt/repaired a spike mark). They both broke one of the the fundamental rules of golf. The only clear difference between the two are that Rory got told he'd broken the rules and added the penalty and Dyson didn't.

Could it be that Rory is one of the big names of golf so gets different treatment from the not so famous guys? Just like the young Asian player getting a one shot penalty for slow play at the Masters. He was an easier target that one of the big names.

EDIT - Apologies to Liverpoolphil, don't know why that quote has come up as yours when it should have been Doublebogey's.
Click to expand...
 
HawkeyeMS said:
Yes he was guilty of breaking the code of conduct expected by the ET, that doesn't make him a cheat, it means he made a stupid mistake.

If someone at my club had done this once by mistake, I'd accept it for what it was, a mistake. There are unfortunately too many people who want to castigate others for simple mistakes, which is fine for anyone who has never made an honest mistake but for the other 100%, it doesn't reflect well.
Click to expand...

I agree, and I like to think I would have the same attitude to someone at my own club. My point was to those who thought I needed to apologise for saying that I'd heard he would be dealt with severely, imho he was dealt with severely, something I take no pleasure in at all as I think he has been hung out to dry for a pretty basic mistake.
 
• Ever used salt instead of sugar?
• Ever hit the wipers when you meant to indicate?
• Ever made a typo on a forum post?
• Ever open the fridge when you wanted something out the freezer?

These are all things (mistakes) we do on autopilot & I won’t even try to list the ones we’ve all done at work day in day out

The guy has lifted 10’s of thousands of balls from a putting green (at work) and on this occasion he made a mistake

The Q is whether he did it deliberately (with awareness) and at what point he became aware (he says when he saw the footage)

At a televised sporting event I can’t see how some could suggest it was deliberate and those trying to say he looks shifty are better than I at reading a strangers body language because once it’s tapped down you only see him from behind
 
HawkeyeMS said:
Have you never heard of subconcious actions or reflexes, have you never ever in your life done something without realising you were doing it or without thinking? If you can answer no to those things then you're a robot.
Click to expand...

He still cheated...........he didnt just tap any bit down, he tapped the spike mark..............if that was subconcious then he's thick.

Oh, I broke the rules, a rule that we all know, but I happen to have a subconcious reflex because I seen the spike mark and I didnt want to miss the putt.

Okay thats sarcastic...........but you can give him the benefit of the doubt, I’m not.
 
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