Short game scoring.

[kid2]

Iv been wondering over the past few weeks is it really worth using Tour balls at all....

I'll try explain why.… Their not the longest ball by any stretch on the market.... Some are not even the softest..... They play pretty much the same off the irons as well feel wise.… they can now be bought to spin less from the tee another area where a decent feeling 2 piece ball can also keep up with the tour ball in.... Putting is also such a personal thing that some like a harder feeling ball than others....,,

From short little chips around the green side I would hazard a guess that most handicap golfers can't take advantage of the spin a tour ball has over a 2 piece and even if they can get spin they may be inconsistent with distance control....

So I guess the safer bet for most is to play a chip and run type game...... I also think that for problem shots around the green where a lot of loft is needed the ball is going up more than forward so again spin really isn't an issue either....

So that leaves really only shots from say 9 iron distance in..... I know that most tour balls from this range will have more bite than the 2 piece balls but that is also subject to the play.... You could have a single figure golfer that puts heaps of spin on a ball and also he hits the ball high who may not have a problem stopping a 2 piece ball from that distance....

I say all this as I played the weekend just gone with a Wilson staff DX2 ball.... I love these. I shot 5 over gross... I played up to nearly may of last season with them before changing to ProV1's.... 2nd hand I might add.... I can't justify buying them new..... But if you blind folded me I think I'd struggle to tell the difference in feel...

I'm also more of a chip and run player.... I find that even when I'm practicing my short game I'm not overly aggressive trying to get a ball to grab......
I suppose flying a ball in from 60 or 70 yards with a 52 or 56 degree wedge you would see the tour ball come to life but is it really worth playing with these if you only see this shot a few times a round...

I'm not against using a tour ball but I'd like to know what the general consensus is across the handicap ranges for the particular balls....


Would it be then a case of during the summer if for instance say you did have the 130 and in distance left that it would require landing the 2 piece ball shorter to allow for the run out....

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I would say that when our greens are firm in the summer, the additional grip I get with a decent premium ball is noticeable compared to that with a 2 piece, certainly on pitches from say <70 yards. Around the green when playing a pitch and run I would agree more but would still argue that the firmer 2 piece will "ping" off the face a little hotter and therefore roll up quicker and further. Horses for courses as with any equipment choice but I'm happier using the balls I do. Lets be honest, in the summer the roll makes up for any potential distance loss. In the winter it's target golf to wet greens and then I do swap to something firmer. The slower greens counter act the hotter feel and I want more run.

 

[Imurg]

When you're playing for the green, requiring the ball to pitch short and roll of removes a lot of the control.
Once the ball pitches you have no control over it. It may take a soft bounce, a hard bounce or even kick left or right.
Fly the ball most o the way there and setting it to stop gives you control.
Off the tee I don't think there's much difference between your ProVs and your DX2s to be honest.
Very long approaches an you'll still struggle.
Closer to the green and you'll see it.
Also the , generally, softish conditions mean you can get stop with anything
In the Summer, on hard greens, you won't get anything less than a premium ball to stop. Then yo have to pitch short and let it run up - but anytime you're doing that and you're not on the green you're at the mercy of the bounce.

And if using a ProV saves me a couple of shots on the couple of occasions a round where I really need it then I'll be back in CAT1

 

[kid2]

I would say that when our greens are firm in the summer, the additional grip I get with a decent premium ball is noticeable compared to that with a 2 piece, certainly on pitches from say <70 yards. Around the green when playing a pitch and run I would agree more but would still argue that the firmer 2 piece will "ping" off the face a little hotter and therefore roll up quicker and further. Horses for courses as with any equipment choice but I'm happier using the balls I do. Lets be honest, in the summer the roll makes up for any potential distance loss. In the winter it's target golf to wet greens and then I do swap to something firmer. The slower greens counter act the hotter feel and I want more run.

See that's my point homer.... Not all 2 piece balls are firmer than Tour balls..... The Wilson DX2 and both the Srixon ad333 and soft feel to name a few I think Bridgestones e6 doesn't break the bank either and has the same cover as a Tour ball.

 

[kid2]

When you're playing for the green, requiring the ball to pitch short and roll of removes a lot of the control.
Once the ball pitches you have no control over it. It may take a soft bounce, a hard bounce or even kick left or right.
Fly the ball most o the way there and setting it to stop gives you control.
Off the tee I don't think there's much difference between your ProVs and your DX2s to be honest.
Very long approaches an you'll still struggle.
Closer to the green and you'll see it.
Also the , generally, softish conditions mean you can get stop with anything
In the Summer, on hard greens, you won't get anything less than a premium ball to stop. Then yo have to pitch short and let it run up - but anytime you're doing that and you're not on the green you're at the mercy of the bounce.

And if using a ProV saves me a couple of shots on the couple of occasions a round where I really need it then I'll be back in CAT1

I agree Murg..... My post was more to see what people think..... To be honest I know what your saying about the bounce also .... I find at times that the spin of a tour ball can have its draw backs too though......

 

[Imurg]

See that's my point homer.... Not all 2 piece balls are firmer than Tour balls..... The Wilson DX2 and both the Srixon ad333 and soft feel to name a few I think Bridgestones e6 doesn't break the bank either and has the same cover as a Tour ball.

But do they spin as much........
At the end of the day it's about knowing how whatever ball you use will react.

 

[kid2]

But do they spin as much........

There's a good chance not.... But is it only in that wedge distance area... Its something I'm gonna try and test some summer evening when the course is quite... I'd like to see how much 40 euros worth of extra control looks like:lol:

 

[the_coach]

Would say it is worthwhile spending some time doing some research into how different balls react to your swing for sure, especially the further you get down the 'handicap ladder' & you're looking to shave shots off your scores, but the same is true really whatever standard, why not look to get the most help you can.

But my advice would be to find the ball that gives you the best results off your putter face & also the scoring clubs from 140 in. Those are the shots you will hit most in a round of golf.

Never have thought & don't think fitting a ball to your long game is the way to go, as only really 15 shots you might hit at the very most with a driver & reality is you very rarely would hit 15 drivers anyways, because of the hole design a bunch of par 4's you'll be hitting a 3 metal even 5 maybes, or hybrid or long iron from the tee. Matching a ball to your putting feel, short game whole better way to go.

 

[kid2]

Matching a ball to your putting feel, short game whole better way to go.

Totally agree..... But is there a best of both worlds where you can get a cheaper ball with the control from 130 yards in....

 

[the_coach]

Totally agree..... But is there a best of both worlds where you can get a cheaper ball with the control from 130 yards in....

Guess, in the end probably not completely. But there will be a compromise you could make, to find a ball that could work good for you maybes still that won't mean spending the bucks on 'premium balls'. Guess it just takes some time to find it.

 

[MadAdey]

Always wondered how much better some people might be playing with a good quality 2 piece. People who are shorter hitters would defiantly see a benefit IMO.

If you are on a 400 yard hole and you hit your driver say 230 normally, that will still leave you with something like a 5i at the green. But with a ball giving more distance (not a distance brick, but something like an NXT) then you might be hitting it 250 leaving maybe a 7/8i. It may spin less than the tour ball, but an 8i with a good 2 piece is going to spin more than a 5i with a tour ball. So you hit more greens, removing the need for a ball that gives more feel when chipping.

The other thing with a ball that spins more, you are going to increase the amount of side spin too on a bad shot, so higher handicappers may actually benefit from having less spin.

that is just how I see the debate on good quality 2 piece balls and tour balls.

 

[kid2]

Always wondered how much better some people might be playing with a good quality 2 piece. People who are shorter hitters would defiantly see a benefit IMO.

If you are on a 400 yard hole and you hit your driver say 230 normally, that will still leave you with something like a 5i at the green. But with a ball giving more distance (not a distance brick, but something like an NXT) then you might be hitting it 250 leaving maybe a 7/8i. It may spin less than the tour ball, but an 8i with a good 2 piece is going to spin more than a 5i with a tour ball. So you hit more greens, removing the need for a ball that gives more feel when chipping.

The other thing with a ball that spins more, you are going to increase the amount of side spin too on a bad shot, so higher handicappers may actually benefit from having less spin.

that is just how I see the debate on good quality 2 piece balls and tour balls.

Nice angle pal.... I hadn't thought of the distance from the tee leaving shorter approach for some players.

 

[Lump]

I'm sure I've seen somewhere that peak spin is created with a max loft of 52*. Personally I find that with a gap wedge on a full shot it matters very little which ball I am using ( apart from two balls, prov1's and FG tours). All can be made to stop with a crisp contact

 

[CMAC]

All balls hit correctly will spin and stop from 150yds and in, some spin more than others so its finding one you like off the putter face and high irons where you get more feel that's important IMO. Good point by madadey about the non tour ball possibly getting you closer to the green and therefore shorter irons on approaches.

 

[Foxholer]

It's always a bit frustrating how I seem to get 'drop and stop' when I'm short and more run when I'm long! And it doesn't matter what ball I use!

Ball used makes a lot less difference than the marketing folk would have us believe, so I play the ball that feels best, for me, off the putter and Driver.

 

[bozza]

Always wondered how much better some people might be playing with a good quality 2 piece. People who are shorter hitters would defiantly see a benefit IMO.

If you are on a 400 yard hole and you hit your driver say 230 normally, that will still leave you with something like a 5i at the green. But with a ball giving more distance (not a distance brick, but something like an NXT) then you might be hitting it 250 leaving maybe a 7/8i. It may spin less than the tour ball, but an 8i with a good 2 piece is going to spin more than a 5i with a tour ball. So you hit more greens, removing the need for a ball that gives more feel when chipping.

The other thing with a ball that spins more, you are going to increase the amount of side spin too on a bad shot, so higher handicappers may actually benefit from having less spin.

that is just how I see the debate on good quality 2 piece balls and tour balls.

Sure I read somewhere that distance balls don't actually go any further than say a Pro V1, didn't Crossfield do a video on it?

 

[Oddsocks]

Madadey brings my biggest concern up nicely, sidespin! I've tried pro v's and while its a nice ball I find it makes a ok shot a lot worse, especially on a windy course. It will often turn a fade into quite a bad slice and the same with a draw.... Hook city!

For me a dx3 is a nice ball, pretty long off the tee although it's still behind things like a nxt tour, but I can stop these very quickly on hard greens! The fact I shopped smart and stock piled while they were £10 a doz is even better.

I suppose the next choice for me would be a z star!

I'm sure I read that if you put the same swing on every ball in the titleist camp, your shots would only vary by around 7 yards, too me that's 1 iron different, so not enough to warrant a £5.00 ball, thàts 6 dx3's

 

[chrisd]

If you stand by the green when a ball comes in, the premium ball always seems to check up better on the second bounce, as far as I can see.

 

[pokerjoke]

For me its about changing with the conditions.
A premium ball in the summer Prov1x and an AD333 in the winter or NXT.
I do find a premium ball better in the summer purely because the greens are so firm
it will give less run.
Kid2 do you play links courses?
This will also effect the ball I play especially if its windy.
I will prefer a 2 piece then and go for more of a pitch and run.
Also ball flight comes into play,my flight is very flat so I tend to get a bit more run
than someone who hits it miles in the air.
Getting it right though especially around the greens will help reduce your handicap.

 

[garyinderry]

there is a big difference between sodden irish courses and baked English ones! you need all the help you can get during the English summer!

I could not believe my eyes the first time I played allerton in Liverpool when the ground was baked. I bought some rock hard balls in the wee shop and went out. the ball was bouncing around like it was on the moon!

it was really strange coming from the soaked n.west of Ireland!




point about drives going 30 yards more is fine as long as you hit it straight every time. put that baby off line and you may as well reload!