Sharapova

[Deleted member 15344]

Depends on what your definition of a clean sports person is

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

The key words here are "Freely Available" Supplements and protein shakes are freely available, but this stuff is prescription only, so it isn't "Freely Available"
as it isnt available in the states, her people have gone to huge efforts to ensure that she gets a regular supply for far longer than the normal length of treatment.
Therefore this drug has been dishonestly obtained, whether or not it was on the banned list or not.

Laws have been broken, medical ethics trashed and also nobody knows what the long term effects of this drug are, Russian Roulette springs to mind

I accept that as it wasnt on the banned list until 1 Jan then "technically" she wasnt cheating, But my moral compass is pointing due south on this one

Actually, one of the first reports I read on this story on the BBC website said the substance is freely available over the counter in certain countries so I guess some could argue it's no different from buying or taking regular supplements?

 

[richart]

Actually, one of the first reports I read on this story on the BBC website said the substance is freely available over the counter in certain countries so I guess some could argue it's no different from buying or taking regular supplements?

You could have said that a bit earlier, would have saved a lot of pointless posts.

 

[hovis]

Actually, one of the first reports I read on this story on the BBC website said the substance is freely available over the counter in certain countries so I guess some could argue it's no different from buying or taking regular supplements?

Anabolic steroids are available over the counter in quite a few countries too. Cant use them though

 

[Hacker Khan]

I haven't heard WADA advise the timelines of when the information about the drugs being on a watch list or when the drug was banned was advised to athletes, their reps or the info was in the public domain.

Until that time I accept Sharapova's version of events that she was advised via email about the drug being banned on 22 Dec. At that time she failed to read the email and continued to pop the pills. Then when she was tested in mid Jan she accepts that she failed a drugs test for a substance that was banned from 1 Jan.

She is now waiting for her punishment.

But assuming that a person knows the drug they are taking is 'borderline' to put it politely, then do you not think that someone who is apparently scrupulous in their business dealings and obsessive on every detail, would take 10 seconds to read an email that may well make what they are knowingly taking illegal?

I'd buy that argument more if they were taking that drug for the first time and the last time they looked it was OK, but am struggling to see that scenario if someone has been taking it for 10 years.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Anabolic steroids are available over the counter in quite a few countries too. Cant use them though

No doubt they are but as far as I know they are on the banned list?

 

[Ethan]

Laws broken ? Medical ethics trashed ?

Drug dishonestly obtained

So you know all about her medical history?

How come everyone seems to know Sharapovas exact medical history to determine the drugs were gained dishonestly ?

Have her medical records been published so everyone can see ?

Phil

I agree with you on one thing. On Dec31st, taking this stuff was fine, on Jan 1st it wasn't. Whether she is a cheat or not depends on whether she knew that rule or not.

As for the medical explanation, I don't have her medical records. But I have experience of the use of medicines to treat diabetes (or treat a family history, whatever that means), I also know about hypomagnesaemia, ECGs and how medicine is practised in Russia.

Low magnesium is pretty common and mostly asymptomatic and unimportant. There is an effective treatment - magnesium.

It would be insane beyond belief to start trying to prevent Type 2 DM with medicines at age 18. Partly because T2DM doesn't usually occur until the 40s or 50s but also because you simply can't prevent it with medicines, but you would expose someone to 30 years of side effects, and also because the best treatment is to stay fit and slim, like wot Grand Slam tennis players do. Anyway, T2DM does not have a strong inherited element. It is common, though, so most people have some relatives with it, but doesn't mean your risk is elevated.

Medicine in Russia comes in 2 flavours - public hospitals which make the NHS look like the Four Seasons, and private, in which you can get what you want when you want it, no questions asked. I suspect she uses the latter route.

But the most incredible aspect of all is that she is a rich Florida resident. If she needed any medicines, she would get the most modern, best proven and safest right at home instead of a dodgy unproven medicine which can't get approved in any westward country. However funny enough, it has the advantage of being a PED.

You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to work it out.

 

[drdel]

I recall a golfer taking an antler based product - there was no ban or claims of cheating. I guess he must have just liked the taste even though it was sprayed into the mouth.

Its so nice to see equitable commentary/treatment across sports and nations.

 

[PhilTheFragger]

The key words here are "Freely Available" Supplements and protein shakes are freely available, but this stuff is prescription only, so it isn't "Freely Available"
as it isnt available in the states, her people have gone to huge efforts to ensure that she gets a regular supply for far longer than the normal length of treatment.
Therefore this drug has been dishonestly obtained, whether or not it was on the banned list or not.

Laws have been broken, medical ethics trashed and also nobody knows what the long term effects of this drug are, Russian Roulette springs to mind

I accept that as it wasnt on the banned list until 1 Jan then "technically" she wasnt cheating, But my moral compass is pointing due south on this one

Laws broken ? Medical ethics trashed ?

Drug dishonestly obtained

So you know all about her medical history?

How come everyone seems to know Sharapovas exact medical history to determine the drugs were gained dishonestly ?

Have her medical records been published so everyone can see ?

If she has a medical condition that requires this drug, then she has had a number of weeks to show her medical records to the LTA / WADA and if such a condition exists then the press conference she initiated would have been to announce a failed test but with a medical exemption. so its all OK. She Didnt

You can google the drug name all you like, there is no long term condition that this drug is appropriate for, Its normal use is for Heart & circulation issues often associated with diabetes, for a few weeks, not 10 years. The drug has been superseded by others for normal dispensing.

If a medical condition does not exist ,then the drugs have been prescribed illegally , this also goes against medical ethics and so does the lack of knowledge of its long term effects.

If she had a heart condition, she would be constantly monitored and no doubt the governing body would have been aware of it, she may even have been the face of the Russian Heart Foundation advertising campaign, I have a heart condition, there are things I cannot do, If she has a heart condition, it is highly unlikely that she got to where she is in the first place, and if she did, so many people would be aware.

But it is clear that she doesnt have a heart condition, therefore the drug was obtained illegally, purely for its performance benefits.
as she tested positive after 1 Jan and is offering no credible defence she will get whatever ban the authorities decide

she has been badly advised about using the medical excuse as it simply doesnt stand up to even the most cursory examination.

Im a great believer in the British Sense of Fair Play, but you have to admit it stinks

 

[Ethan]

I recall a golfer taking an antler based product - there was no ban or claims of cheating. I guess he must have just liked the taste even though it was sprayed into the mouth.

Its so nice to see equitable commentary/treatment across sports and nations.

Vijay Singh. Deer Antler spray has a growth factor, sort of like an anabolic steroid, in it.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Phil

I agree with you on one thing. On Dec31st, taking this stuff was fine, on Jan 1st it wasn't. Whether she is a cheat or not depends on whether she knew that rule or not.

As for the medical explanation, I don't have her medical records. But I have experience of the use of medicines to treat diabetes (or treat a family history, whatever that means), I also know about hypomagnesaemia, ECGs and how medicine is practised in Russia.

Low magnesium is pretty common and mostly asymptomatic and unimportant. There is an effective treatment - magnesium.

It would be insane beyond belief to start trying to prevent Type 2 DM with medicines at age 18. Partly because T2DM doesn't usually occur until the 40s or 50s but also because you simply can't prevent it with medicines, but you would expose someone to 30 years of side effects, and also because the best treatment is to stay fit and slim, like wot Grand Slam tennis players do. Anyway, T2DM does not have a strong inherited element. It is common, though, so most people have some relatives with it, but doesn't mean your risk is elevated.

Medicine in Russia comes in 2 flavours - public hospitals which make the NHS look like the Four Seasons, and private, in which you can get what you want when you want it, no questions asked. I suspect she uses the latter route.

But the most incredible aspect of all is that she is a rich Florida resident. If she needed any medicines, she would get the most modern, best proven and safest right at home instead of a dodgy unproven medicine which can't get approved in any westward country. However funny enough, it has the advantage of being a PED.

You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to work it out.

The main part of that - you don't have her medical records. Yep you have exorience of medicine which is a step more than others who have made medical judgements on here

But again - you don't have her medical records. Anything else is guesswork

 

[larmen]

The main part of that - you don't have her medical records. Yep you have exorience of medicine which is a step more than others who have made medical judgements on here

But again - you don't have her medical records. Anything else is guesswork

I think his point, and all of our point is, there are no medical records. Otherwise she wouldn't have been banned.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

If she has a medical condition that requires this drug, then she has had a number of weeks to show her medical records to the LTA / WADA and if such a condition exists then the press conference she initiated would have been to announce a failed test but with a medical exemption. so its all OK. She Didnt

You can google the drug name all you like, there is no long term condition that this drug is appropriate for, Its normal use is for Heart & circulation issues often associated with diabetes, for a few weeks, not 10 years. The drug has been superseded by others for normal dispensing.

If a medical condition does not exist ,then the drugs have been prescribed illegally , this also goes against medical ethics and so does the lack of knowledge of its long term effects.

If she had a heart condition, she would be constantly monitored and no doubt the governing body would have been aware of it, she may even have been the face of the Russian Heart Foundation advertising campaign, I have a heart condition, there are things I cannot do, If she has a heart condition, it is highly unlikely that she got to where she is in the first place, and if she did, so many people would be aware.

But it is clear that she doesnt have a heart condition, therefore the drug was obtained illegally, purely for its performance benefits.
as she tested positive after 1 Jan and is offering no credible defence she will get whatever ban the authorities decide

she has been badly advised about using the medical excuse as it simply doesnt stand up to even the most cursory examination.

Im a great believer in the British Sense of Fair Play, but you have to admit it stinks

Again lots of "IF's" in there and sorry when did you medically exam her to find out "it's clear she doesn't have a heart condition"

Again I'm unsure when you become an expert on medical conditions or indeed anyone who is judging her medical - are you a doctor ?

Certainly to make statements of fact about her medically ?

When did anyone on here become her doctor to throw the accusations about and make the statements portraying them as fact

Simple question - do you know factually her medical history and the history of her family ? As the answer is no you and anyone cannot make statements of accusations and fact about her medical condition .

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I think his point, and all of our point is, there are no medical records. Otherwise she wouldn't have been banned.

So her doctor doesn't have medical records about her ?

She is suspended right now pending investigation and the press conference gave her reasons for using the drug - those reasons will be in her doctors medical records if true.

Piece said it spot on - it's amazing how everyone has become such an expert on Sharapovas medical history in the space of 24 hours

But what happened before 1st Jan doesn't matter - she was breaking no rules and taking no banned substance.

 

[Fish]

😂😂

And today is Thursday and it's mid summer, why, because I said so 😜

 

[larmen]



And today is Thursday and it's mid summer, why, because I said so 

The difference here is that if you wait bit, this will actually come true. Then you can be the one telling us al that you told us so

 

[PhilTheFragger]

Sorry LP, but you are defending an untenable position, its not nice when an important sports person falls from grace.

I accept your right to your opinion, no matter how ludicrous it is, but I now feel that you are arguing for the sake of arguing.

the problem is now that soon someone is going to get cheesed off with your intransigence and have a pop at you, this will then result in me putting my Mod hat on to deal with it, and that is something that I would like to avoid

we have all had our say, we know where we all stand, and at this point in time there is little more to be added, so suggest we let this thread simmer for a while and see where the story goes

 

[Ethan]

The main part of that - you don't have her medical records. Yep you have exorience of medicine which is a step more than others who have made medical judgements on here

But again - you don't have her medical records. Anything else is guesswork

[Sigh]

Yes, I said that, but let me spell it out for you. I don't need her medical records or family history to know with certainty the following:

1. This drug does NOT prevent diabetes, it doesn't even treat it very well and is not approved to do so even in Russia. Metformin would be the medicine of choice, but it is not a PED.
2. Even if it did (which it doesn't), there is no country in the world, even Russia where staring treating someone at 18 for it would be considered acceptable practice,
3. There are many better safer medicines available in the US than this dodgy Russian medicine.
4. But the US medicines are not PEDs.

If you can't get that, then I think you need some treatment. Probably counselling, but I wouldn't rule out ECT.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I recall a golfer taking an antler based product - there was no ban or claims of cheating. I guess he must have just liked the taste even though it was sprayed into the mouth.

Its so nice to see equitable commentary/treatment across sports and nations.

Vijay Singh

And think the stuff was banned

http://www.pga.com/news/pga-tour/vi...g-deer-antler-spray-says-he-unaware-it-banned

 

[Imurg]

I think his point, and all of our point is, there are no medical records. Otherwise she wouldn't have been banned.

Just a point of Order - she hasn't been banned
She's been suspended pending the outcome of the enquiry.
Subtle but definite difference..