If Val is alluding to her being a bit of a known slapper, drunk or simply promiscuous, I'm sure the defence would have known and put this forward against her character, if so, they still found him guilty because that still doesn't warrant rape or any non-consensual sex!
Second Chances
- Thread starter bladeplayer
- Start date
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
What about from the victims point of view as opposed to the rapists? Are they different offenses then?
surely the fact that there are different sentences handed it for different crimes suggest the repercussions must in the eye of the laws vary slightly?
No women deserves to be raped. Unjust think that there are levels. The women attacked in an alley will have memories and trauma. This girl didn't rmemener even havin sex because she was so smashed. I'm not saying that means she deserved it or anything. But I'd say the lasting effect will vary victim to victim based in many things. The victims character, the incident, the circumstances all play a part.
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
Personally I would rather have faith in our legal system, and a conviction by jury, over rumours and hearsay. Evans will have his chance when his case is 'reveiwed'. If innocent he will not be the first person to be convicted wrongly, but I am sure they are a small percentage compared to the ones convicted correctly. Seem to remember a lot of peope saying they were innocent when actually they were guilty.
What he said. I agree that the legal system is not perfect and there are miscarriages of justice. But I'd take the view of a jury who has heard all of the evidence over the views of contributors to a golf forum that with the best will in the world have not. And if it turns out he is innocent then fair enough, rehabilitate him and let him play. In my opinion he will still be nasty piece of work and borderline sexual predator, but he certainly won't be the first or last of this type to play football and he should be allowed to resume his career. As Ethan said in the very first post this was not supposed to be about his guilt or not as no one on this board can make an informed decision on that based on all the evidence.
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
Papas1982;1211499[B said:
Yes but as FD has said on many occasions that is reflected in the sentence. You can differentiate just about every crime if you want to. Burglary can range from stealing something from a multinational supermarket to stealing a disabled persons whole belongings. And I suspect most people would view them differently in the seriousness. But they are still burglary. People can go on the sex offenders register for having sex with a 15 year old if they are 16, or old men sexually abusing a young child. But again they are still sex offenders in the eyes of the law.
I do not think the naming or category of the offense needs to change, but the perception of many (that unfortunately I suspect are 100% male) that rape is only the violent attack by strangers. And if you do not do this you are not raping someone but committing a different offense, whatever you are going to call it? When you are not, you are still a rapist based on the accepted legal definition. I do agree the sentence will and should be different in some circumstances, but the crime is the same.
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MegaSteve
Tour Winner
I am guessing you've never sat on a jury...
My experiences of having done so have only left me questioning the 'system'...
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
A very big +1 to that!
My only point, was simply as Madadey said. Maybe more convictions would come from it.
You've made you presumtion that only men can misunderstand rape which is your call. But in this case having read the court release I'd have sided with not guilty. Purely because the isn't any PROOF that she didn't consent. But if they're was a crime of taken advantage then I'd find him guilty.
From what has been written it seems one word against the other and you stron belief that all men misunderstand couod go both ways. I'd suggest every female jury had him pegged guilty from the off. So only had to convert one or two men's thiughts.
Back to op though, if we are gonna accept that our Egan system is the best and all that. Then our society also says people deserve the opportunity to rehabilitate, and therefore he should be allowed to continue.
Going by your belief that it's either rape or it isn't. And that their shouldn't be different categories. If he's found innocent on appeal. Why, should he race rehabilitation when legally he's done nothing wrong?
sawtooth
Tour Winner
I agree that every deserves a second chance, serve your time and get on with your life.
However, its a special case when you are talking about someone in the public eye. A potential role model for young people.
IMO he should take a job in football or doing something else where he is just a regular employee.
However, its a special case when you are talking about someone in the public eye. A potential role model for young people.
IMO he should take a job in football or doing something else where he is just a regular employee.
User20205
Money List Winner
I've not sat on a jury. I'm interested in why you say the above. Are you saying you don't get to see all the evidence? That jury's are led by either the judge or members find it hard to park their own preconceptions?
Hacker Khan
Yurt Dwelling, Yoghurt Knitter
I mean rehabilitate him into the game as he is currently poison. Also he could arguably do with some advice on how to conduct himself with regards to women, but as I said in another post, he won't be the only footballer than needs this.
Blue in Munich
Crocked Professional Yeti Impersonator
Some members of juries use their prejudices to "square up" perceived injustices, some refuse to acknowledge the relevant facts or law and give a verdict according to something else, some juries are arguably slanted by judges disbarring certain people or professions from sitting on them and some cases beggar belief that they were ever bought in the first place is my personal experience. i've been called 4 times, must have upset someone.
It will make an interesting conversation on the 23rd of February.
MegaSteve
Tour Winner
Similar experiences to mine... Can't be too specific but one case I got to sit on one of the jurors was having to be brought to the court from his home, each day, by the police [court officers maybe] to ensure his attendance... I am sure, from that, you can guess his input [or lack of] to the discussion...
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
Scary that these people can have such a big say on someone's life.
And others form an opinion based on their decision.
User20205
Money List Winner
That sounds like a fun night
I'd rather take the mickey out of rich.
Does this mean that you and mega Steve question all verdicts delivered by trial by jury ?
Maybe some qualification, like an iq above 75, should be introduced?
C
c1973
Guest
Justice is delivered by people like this.....
http://www.ardrossanherald.com/news...man-dodged-jury-service-to-catch-a-lift-home/
MegaSteve
Tour Winner
Can't speak for BiM but I'm old enough and ugly enough to take on board there's no such thing as a perfect 'system'... And, I guess, our way has, in balance, served us well for quite a while...
PhilTheFragger
Provider of Entertainment for the Golfing Gods 🙄
Its OK, BIM is also old and ugly, but a finer chap you couldnt meet. he also has experience in the law enforcement business, so knows what he is talking about.
No system is perfect, granted, but sometimes you look at the odd sentences being handed out for different crimes and it really makes you wonder if these people who judge are from the same planet
SocketRocket
Ryder Cup Winner
So whats the alternative to the Jury system?
