scratch, gents and ladies mixed comp

[patricks148]

This came up in the gm scratch tread.

if you have ladies and mens scratch comp (mixed), where the ladies play off the reds and the men the whites, so effectively different courses with probably different par and SSS. would it still just be the lowest score regardless or would there have to be some adjustment to allow for this?

RickG posted a link but i could see this mentioned only to see Congu.

 

[Old Skier]

If it's scratch comp then I'm not sure why they both should be playing of anything other than scratch.

 

[patricks148]

If it's scratch comp then I'm not sure why they both should be playing of anything other than scratch.

Thats what Im thinking but what if....off the white par 71 a guy shoots 72 gross and a lass has a 73 gross on a par 74, who is the winner


the man has the lowest gross, but the lady is under par.

 

[duncan mackie]

Thats what Im thinking but what if....off the white par 71 a guy shoots 72 gross and a lass has a 73 gross on a par 74, who is the winner


the man has the lowest gross, but the lady is under par.

the problem is that you are running a comp between apples and pear (metaphorically speaking!)

whether across courses. tees or sexes I would suggest that you consider scores relative to the SSS for the tee and course played - in the example you cite above I would consider the lass to have been 2 shots better if you substitute SSS for par. Par is not a measure of difficulty and has no relevance in such comparisons.

 

[rulefan]

The scores of players from the higher rated SSS should be reduced by the difference in the SSSs.

To play to scratch a player's score must = the SSS (par is irrelevant).

 

[patricks148]

The scores of players from the higher rated SSS should be reduced by the difference in the SSSs.

To play to scratch a player's score must = the SSS (par is irrelevant).

in the example i gave the mens SSS is 73 and the ladies 74, so both are under The SSS, so in this instance a Tie.

so the winner would be the closest to there tee SSS our under it?

 

[Fyldewhite]

Yep, the guy shot 72, the girl shot 73 - 1 = 72 ("courtesy shot" is the usual terminology in these parts and applies in handicap comps too). So put another way, they both shot 1 under their respective SSS so the basic result is a tie.

 

[Ethan]

We have this with men and women playing in the same comps sometimes, and net score wins, regardless of CSS.

No courtesy shots or anything like that.

Likewise if it is a stableford.

 

[Foxholer]

There's no such thing as 'courtesy' shots! The correct term is 'Equity' shots - which equate the different SSSs. At an old Club, Ladies received 2 or 1 shot, or gave 1 shot, depending on which set of tees the men played from.

In a scratch Medal competition, that's all that's needed. In a Stableford competition, the difference in Pars also has to be considered. All documented in the Congu manual.

CSS is a separate calculation for each sex and is only used for Handicap adjustment purposes.

 

[rulefan]

To confirm Foxholer's post.

They are not 'courtesy strokes'. They are a right. CONGU no longer use the term. It applies to all competitions where men or women are playing from different tees.
The word 'courtesy' goes back to before CONGU set out the rules.

SSS (Standard Scratch Score or now Course Rating) is fixed and is not the same as CSS (Competition Scratch Score), which varies with the competition..

 

[srixon 1]

When men and women pro's play in the same competition, (men off the men's tees and women off the women's tees), only the lowest gross is taken into account. This is regardless of any difference that there might be in par.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Our County Junior Scratch League went into meltdown in the 1990's when I put two girls into our club team [both aged 14 and off 3 and 4 handicap].
They told me to take a hike but I asked them to point out where it says 'boys only' in the rules, which of course they could not.
They then commented that different tees and 'courtesy shots' made it impossible to play a scratch game, I said 'balderdash' or words to that effect and after much huffing and puffing they backed down.
Later on that year, for one match, we had three boys and three girls in the team. The club strolled the league that year.

It is interesting to note that when the scratch 'courtesy' conversation comes up no one ever mentions the fact that the ladies SSS may be less than the mens SSS in which case the men would receive the extra shots.

 

[rulefan]

When men and women pro's play in the same competition, (men off the men's tees and women off the women's tees), only the lowest gross is taken into account. This is regardless of any difference that there might be in par.

Comparing par is always a nonsense if you think about it.

However, where did you get the information re no adjustment?
But then an adjustment based on the Course Rating would also be nonsense as rating is for amateurs with handicaps (even is scratch comps). Pros rarely have handicaps.