Scottish ref mark 2

[User62651]

Or a moral right for London to demand that it Remains in the EU? It was a UK vote.

Would it be wise for the EU to negotiate directly with Scotland before Article 50 is invoked? And even then would it be wise before Independence has been achieved?

Its posturing, positioning and noise by the SNP. Fair play to them, they are playing a fantastic game.

Its no game, way I see it Scotland probably needs to be in the EU rather than isolated with England, that is more critical for us, if not for England. Sturgeon knows she has to act damn quick to show EU leaders what we as a country want. My feeling is we are a separate country in 2 unions, if it is time to leave one union to stay with another we can vote as many times as we like, SNP with help can get a majority to vote in another referendum through Holyrood if they want to try and if Holyrood votes yes and Westmister says no where does that leave this so called union, there is no real union now other than in name. If other parties at Holyrood had more MSPs then they can shoot it down, but they dont at present. UK government does not represent Scotland, 1 Tory MP is it and we are getting dragged out, it seems clear most English Brexiters would be happy with Scotland leaving so they can be entirely on their own in 'glorious' England so what's the problem? You dont hear older uneducated masses of Brexiters say 'we've got our UK back', or 'we've got our England and Wales back' all you hear is 'we've got our England back', too one sided. Go Nicola.
For those claimimng the Indyref was once in a generation, Better Together promised the only way to stay in the EU was to vote NO, so they neutralise eachother.

 

[Old Skier]

Hopefully only under 18 year old with a minimum of 7 A levels will be allowed to vote.

A 2/3rds majority will also be required

 

[Fish]

Well I'm Scottish and European. So I certainly won't miss idiots like you.

Easy voting decision for you then, see ya....😜

 

[SocketRocket]

Its no game, way I see it Scotland probably needs to be in the EU rather than isolated with England, that is more critical for us, if not for England. Sturgeon knows she has to act damn quick to show EU leaders what we as a country want. My feeling is we are a separate country in 2 unions, if it is time to leave one union to stay with another we can vote as many times as we like, SNP with help can get a majority to vote in another referendum through Holyrood if they want to try and if Holyrood votes yes and Westmister says no where does that leave this so called union, there is no real union now other than in name. If other parties at Holyrood had more MSPs then they can shoot it down, but they dont at present. UK government does not represent Scotland, 1 Tory MP is it and we are getting dragged out, it seems clear most English Brexiters would be happy with Scotland leaving so they can be entirely on their own in 'glorious' England so what's the problem? You dont hear older uneducated masses of Brexiters say 'we've got our UK back', or 'we've got our England and Wales back' all you hear is 'we've got our England back', too one sided. Go Nicola.
For those claimimng the Indyref was once in a generation, Better Together promised the only way to stay in the EU was to vote NO, so they neutralise eachother.

Can you show where this was promised?

 

[KenL]

I am British and brought up in Scotland. I was really disappointed by the EU vote but it was a UK vote and absolutely nothing to do with Scottish independence.

I am disgusted by Sturgeon and her insistence that Scotland should now automatically be given another stab at independence. Scotland is not some prosperous, idyllic country - too many lazy indigenous people happy to live off hand outs and not work for the common good.

Scotland will really struggle if independent whether or not part of the EU, especially if the EU is weakened by the rest of the UK leaving.

 

[Val]

Like in anything, if someone wants out or wants to leave, let them go, grass greener and all that, let them out to play in the big bad world on their own and see how they fare! I'm English first not British and certainly not European, if they think they'll be better off as without us as all they do is whinge about Westminster,, then good riddance, but don't let them come crawling back.

Do you really have to generalise about the
Scottish? I'll remind you that the majority of Scots voted to stay within the UK, something you could do with remembering before spouting nonsense like this.

 

[Val]

Can you show where this was promised?

Nothing was promised but it was referred to continually that the only way to remain in the EU was vote NO

 

[Old Skier]

Nothing was promised but it was referred to continually that the only way to remain in the EU was vote NO

That's because Spain then and continues to say that they would veto any move for Scotland to join the EU. What do those supporting the SNP not understand about that statement.

 

[ColchesterFC]

That's because Spain then and continues to say that they would veto any move for Scotland to join the EU. What do those supporting the SNP not understand about that statement.

And don't forget Belgium also making noises about vetoing Scotland joining. They have Flanders which is keen on independence and they don't want a precedent to be set that might trigger them to declare independence from Belgium.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

View attachment 19863

Didn't think I'd see this, but seemingly Herald to lend support soon too.

David Torrance - a political columnist of The Herald and a NO last time round - certainly seemed to accept that Indyref2 will happen and also seemed to be leaning towards a YES - both overall and himself. Though as he'd been up for three days I may have got him wrong.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

The last referendum made it clear it was a once in a generation decision, it was not conditional on EU membership so IMO there is no moral right.

No it didn't - Salmond was urging folks to vote YES using that idea as a tactic - just as BT used a NO as the only way for Scotland to stay in the EU as a tactic.

 

[Old Skier]

No it didn't - Salmond was urging folks to vote YES using that idea as a tactic - just as BT used a NO as the only way for Scotland to stay in the EU as a tactic.

Yes it did, or are you going to insist that a Google of the Salmond statement be found just to prove your wrong.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...in-a-generation-opportunity-for-Scotland.html

 

[User62651]

Interesting that Henry McLeish, former Labour first Minister of Scotland has said today Scotland should go EU over UK as best for the country now given Thursdays events. If a former Labour top guy is saying that this move has already got legs imo.
There is a good bit of wait and see here but I think they (Scot Govt) have to be proactive and get in fast to float and explore all eventualities considering the huge unknowns going forward, only right. Wouldn't be doing their job if not. Is opportunistic by SNP yes but what an opportunity, my gut feeling is they would at present get the required 50%+ but if they hold another referendum in 2 years and everything has settled down better than expected maybe not, there would be a proportion of more young people who are yes and less old who are no so could work for independence. In 2014 there was also a lot of fear but with this Brexit thing scaring everyone fear of further change won't be as big an issue imo.
Meantime I hope the Tories have the sense to not appoint Boris as PM. There are better candidates.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And don't forget Belgium also making noises about vetoing Scotland joining. They have Flanders which is keen on independence and they don't want a precedent to be set that might trigger them to declare independence from Belgium.

Which is why the SNP are stating loud, clear and without hesitation that the Scottish government wants Scotland to be in the EU - and might even be independent and wishing to remain in the EU at the point the UK leaves.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Yes it did, or are you going to insist that a Google of the Salmond statement be found just to prove your wrong.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...in-a-generation-opportunity-for-Scotland.html

Salmond also said that it was his opinion - and whilst he may obviously be seen to represent the SNP, he did not represent others supporting independence.

 

[Old Skier]

Which is why the SNP are stating loud, clear and without hesitation that the Scottish government wants Scotland to be in the EU - and might even be independent and wishing to remain in the EU at the point the UK leaves.

They can state as loud as they like but IMHO I cannot see Spain giving way.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

They can state as loud as they like but IMHO I cannot see Spain giving way.

Which is why Scotland not actually having to join might appear attractive to some.

 

[Old Skier]

Salmond also said that it was his opinion - and whilst he may obviously be seen to represent the SNP, he did not represent others supporting independence.

Yep sounds about write, SNP have no respect of the democratic process nor do they keep their word. He was at the time leader of the SNP. Are you saying that SNP leaders speak with forked tongue.

 

[Old Skier]

Which is why Scotland not actually having to join might appear attractive to some.

You've lost me, do they think they can join or they don't want to join, or just say they want to join knowing that they can't join.

This is getting very confusing. Will you be living in Scotland so that you cannot receive the benefits of not being in the EU?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

You've lost me, do they think they can join or they don't want to join, or just say they want to join knowing that they can't join.

This is getting very confusing. Will you be living in Scotland so that you cannot receive the benefits of not being in the EU?

Quite possibly

If Scotland is independent at the point the UK secedes - could it be engineered that it would in fact be rUK that secedes and Scotland does not - so Scotland does not actually have to join as it never left?