Scottish ref mark 2

SwingsitlikeHogan said:
My wife (absolutely 100% English - but not so proud of it this morning) thought that Sturgeon spoke well.
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The SNP seem to have very good politicians (not a compliment really) so no surprise they can "speak well".

It's substance they have a problem with.

In interest of balance that could be true of the majority of politicians, the SNP are better than most at playing the game though
 
CheltenhamHacker said:
Can you not see how this changes things though? If a full country votes one way (on a massive issue) but is forced to accept the opposite result, can you not even slightly see why they would then want to redo a vote they held, especially when the previous vote kept saying "if you want to be in the EU, vote NO).
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So if the result had been reversed and Scottish and Irish votes had led to a Remain vote would you have been supporting an English independence referendum?

And apologies DCB, it should of course have been SNP rather than Scotland in my previous post.
 
FairwayDodger said:
She probably did, she's an excellent politician.

That's not a complement, though, she's a shameless opportunist who will do anything to further her twisted ideology.
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I think that Sturgeon may be setting out an SNP position with the EU. There is a possibility, no more than that, that at the point of UK secession from the EU, Indyref2 may have happened and Scotland may have voted YES. At the point a Scottish government could claim that they were an independent Scotland in the EU and so would not have to join the EU.

Just a thought. Lots if maybes I know.
 
ColchesterFC said:
So if the result had been reversed and Scottish and Irish votes had led to a Remain vote would you have been supporting an English independence referendum?

And apologies DCB, it should of course have been SNP rather than Scotland in my previous post.
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Yes I would have. This is one of the biggest issues in recent history for the UK, countries deserve a bit of a say.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
I think that Sturgeon may be setting out an SNP position with the EU. There is a possibility, no more than that, that at the point of UK secession from the EU, Indyref2 may have happened and Scotland may have voted YES. At the point a Scottish government could claim that they were an independent Scotland in the EU and so would not have to join the EU.

Just a thought. Lots if maybes I know.
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It would be just wrong to hold indyref2 until the outcome of brexit was known. We simply wouldn't know either what we were voting to join, or to leave.

I doubt such a principled approach will even cross her mind.
 
I believe the principle of the matter is that 2 years ago, Scottish voters were told that the only way to guarantee continued EU membership was to vote No.
 
chippa1909 said:
I believe the principle of the matter is that 2 years ago, Scottish voters were told that the only way to guarantee continued EU membership was to vote No.
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At the point of the referendum that was correct though, yes?

Scotland were not guaranteed to be part of the EU if they voted for independence.

Unless you wanted the result of this referendum to be rigged, all the Scottish voters knew it was coming
 
chippa1909 said:
I believe the principle of the matter is that 2 years ago, Scottish voters were told that the only way to guarantee continued EU membership was to vote No.
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And in the context of that vote, it was. It's all gone a bit pear shaped since then....

Complete failure of leadership by the pm.
 
One of the first things the Scottish Government will have to tell us is the official position of the EU and Scotland as either a continuing member when the RUK resigns or as a new country that will need to go through the normal entry requirements. That information is going to be crucial and can't be fudged this time.
 
So if the SNP get their way and get a second independence referendum and the vote goes their way I assume they will then be looking to join the EU as that is what all the fuss is about. Assuming that Spain and Belgium don't veto their plans and they sort out switching to join the Euro, which all new member states must commit to. Scotland are currently in a union with 3 other countries, England, Wales and Northern Ireland, and when a democratically reached decision goes against them they throw their toys out of the pram and demand a referendum. What happens when they join a union with 27 other countries? Decisions taken by a majority are far more likely to go against them then. Do they have a tantrum every time and try to demand a referendum?
 
FairwayDodger said:
It would be just wrong to hold indyref2 until the outcome of brexit was known. We simply wouldn't know either what we were voting to join, or to leave.

I doubt such a principled approach will even cross her mind.
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Agree with you on your first line.

The Independence supporters [of all Scottish political parties] need at least two years of support or a Westminster/EU meltdown to reach a point where an Indyref2 would be viable.
Nicola just keeps fanning the embers until the right time comes along.....working a good act with Salmond

Cameron was a liability in Scottish matters, zilch credibility.
Perhaps a new PM will open up a friendlier dialogue.
 
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