Scottish ref mark 2

CheltenhamHacker

CheltenhamHacker

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At the risk of opening a can of worms, I see Sturgeon has said she will being to prepare legislation for a second Indy Ref.

Can't see this one failing if I'm honest, especially following todays result.

Do you think London can follow suit?
 
CheltenhamHacker said:
At the risk of opening a can of worms, I see Sturgeon has said she will being to prepare legislation for a second Indy Ref.

Can't see this one failing if I'm honest, especially following todays result.

Do you think London can follow suit?
Click to expand...

Sturgeon won't call a referendum until she has 2-3yrs of significant YES margin. I suppose if things go super smooth with UK/EU negotiations between now and formally leaving then that gap won't open. Then again...
 
Might work as long as she has a guarantee Scotland can get into the EU alone (if the EU continues to function) otherwise little chance of a split, she has to get UK parliament ok first too but maybe England are now happy to whittle it down to just themselves and Wales. Don't think Scotland would meet the EU qualification criteria as is. Maybe she has to act quick to attract lots of the London bases finance centres up here as their new gateway point into the EU?:mad:

A great storm is brewing!
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Though actually I don't think she can call one in any case.

Interesting ploy might be for the Tories to call a snap General Election and hope to see the SNP getting gubbed. Though that of course wouldn't change the Holyrood situation.
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why on earth would that cause the tories to call a snap GE lol yep lets go to the polls despite not knowing who our leader is, 4 years before we have to, to stop something happening that technically cant happen anyway
 
They should not have another one. It's like they'll keep having them until they the result they want.

Scotland have had their referendum. Live with it!
 
fundy said:
why on earth would that cause the tories to call a snap GE lol yep lets go to the polls despite not knowing who our leader is, 4 years before we have to, to stop something happening that technically cant happen anyway
Click to expand...

I was half jesting suggesting that a Tory tactic to undermine the SNP and a 2nd IndyRef would be to call a snap GE - of course one might be deemed necessary in any case to give a new Tory PM a mandate.
 
I can't see Indy Ref 2 happening within the next couple of years at least as I don't think it is in Scottish interests to do so. Would Scottish voters vote for an independent Scotland with oil prices at $50 per barrel when all of the previous financial models were based on oil at over $100 per barrel. It would seem sensible for the SNP to wait and see what happens both with UK negotiations on the exit and also what effect the exit has on the EU as a whole, for example do other countries also look to leave. It also seems almost certain that to get EU membership Scotland would have to accept the Euro as their currency and I'm not sure that would be a wise decision.

Have also seen that it is possible that Spain and possibly Belgium would look to veto Scottish membership of the EU. Spain would not want to set a precedent especially with Catalonia looking for it's own independence and Belgium has similar worries over Flanders.
 
Crazyface said:
They should not have another one. It's like they'll keep having them until they the result they want.

Scotland have had their referendum. Live with it!
Click to expand...

And the SNP and other supporters of independence will ask 'who are you to take such a view and tell us whether we should have another IndyRef or not?' You do realise that by you taking your view a few more will be added to the YES camp?
 
Well whatever happens, it has to be decisive this time around. We've still not recovered from the fallout from the last one, this will only pick at the scab :mad:
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
And the SNP and other supporters of independence will ask 'who are you to take such a view and tell us whether we should have another IndyRef or not?' You do realise that by you taking your view a few more will be added to the YES camp?
Click to expand...

And why should they have another referendum?

Less than two years ago Scotland was given the choice to become independent or remain as part of the UK. They chose to remain in the UK. Yesterday's vote was not about what Scotland wanted, it was about what the UK wanted. It might not be the result that I would have chosen but we live in a democracy and a majority of the UK has decided they want to leave the EU. Scotland chose to stay in the UK and therefore should abide by that decision. Or is Scotland going to have a Ronaldo style hissy fit and throw their toys out of the pram every time a decision is made in the UK that they don't agree with?
 
ColchesterFC said:
Or is Scotland going to have a Ronaldo style hissy fit and throw their toys out of the pram every time a decision is made in the UK that they don't agree with?
Click to expand...

This already happens all the time and is tiresome already.

Which is why, much as I don't want Scotland to be Independent, part of me just thinks "sod it", let them vote Yes so we can all get on with things without the #indyref2 BS being pulled out every time the toys come out of the pram.

What a sad state of affairs :(

Edit, per DCB's post it is actually the SNP that squeal like a pig when they don't get their own rather than "Scotland". I'm tired of it and don't live there anymore!!
 
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What any 'remain' camp should be focusing on in Indy Ref 2 is to really question the SNP how they are going to bridge the gap between what they spend and what they receive: (from GERS report)

Net Fiscal Balance 2014-15

This is the difference between current revenue and total public sector expenditure including capital investment. The net fiscal balance:

Excluding North Sea revenue, was a deficit of £16.7 billion (11.9 per cent of GDP).

Including an illustrative geographic share of North Sea revenue, was a deficit of £14.9 billion (9.7 per cent of GDP).

For the UK, was a deficit of £89.1 billion (4.9 per cent of GDP).

Who will bank roll the overdraft for them and at what cost and how long before they intend to balance the books?
 
ColchesterFC said:
And why should they have another referendum?

Less than two years ago Scotland was given the choice to become independent or remain as part of the UK. They chose to remain in the UK. Yesterday's vote was not about what Scotland wanted, it was about what the UK wanted. It might not be the result that I would have chosen but we live in a democracy and a majority of the UK has decided they want to leave the EU. Scotland chose to stay in the UK and therefore should abide by that decision. Or is Scotland going to have a Ronaldo style hissy fit and throw their toys out of the pram every time a decision is made in the UK that they don't agree with?
Click to expand...

Can you not see how this changes things though? If a full country votes one way (on a massive issue) but is forced to accept the opposite result, can you not even slightly see why they would then want to redo a vote they held, especially when the previous vote kept saying "if you want to be in the EU, vote NO).

Whilst not a supporter of scottish independence previously, this seems pretty clear cut now that they deserve a chance to do what they desire.

And the Independent City of London can follow....
 
Please don't refer to Scotland as a whole like that. It's the SNP, who currently have a strong following due to the independence scenario, who want to push for independence. There are lots of us who really would be happy to stay within the UK.
 
ColchesterFC said:
I can't see Indy Ref 2 happening within the next couple of years at least as I don't think it is in Scottish interests to do so. Would Scottish voters vote for an independent Scotland with oil prices at $50 per barrel when all of the previous financial models were based on oil at over $100 per barrel. It would seem sensible for the SNP to wait and see what happens both with UK negotiations on the exit and also what effect the exit has on the EU as a whole, for example do other countries also look to leave. It also seems almost certain that to get EU membership Scotland would have to accept the Euro as their currency and I'm not sure that would be a wise decision.

Have also seen that it is possible that Spain and possibly Belgium would look to veto Scottish membership of the EU. Spain would not want to set a precedent especially with Catalonia looking for it's own independence and Belgium has similar worries over Flanders.
Click to expand...

I agree - she will look for at least 2-3 yrs of a big YES gap over NO.
 
DCB said:
Please don't refer to Scotland as a whole like that. It's the SNP, who currently have a strong following due to the independence scenario, who want to push for independence. There are lots of us who really would be happy to stay within the UK.
Click to expand...

Exactly. No surprise sturgeon jumped in with both feet today but it's pure political opportunism and only fanning the flames of a bad situation this morning.
 
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