Scottish ref mark 2

SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Which is why the SNP are stating loud, clear and without hesitation that the Scottish government wants Scotland to be in the EU - and might even be independent and wishing to remain in the EU at the point the UK leaves.
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There is a loose precedent of sorts with Denmark/Faroes/Greenland with Denmark in EU and 2 of its dependencies/territories (or something akin to that) in Faeroes/Greenland not being in EU so there is some room for manouvre, could be possible UK stays together in some changed form yet component parts of UK can be in EU, would be complicated of course but that's often the case. Really cant see Scotland accepting Brexit without a major fight, really can't, 62% in over all geographic areas is too strong a position imo despite this being a UK vote, such a clear divide.

Do you think Lizzie will get involved with this? - massive turmoil all over UK on this one, UK Govt and opposition is shambolic currently and she's keeping schtumm (sp.). As head of state should she not speak up and re-assure the UK, be people monarchist or not?
 
maxfli65 said:
There is a loose precedent of sorts with Denmark/Faroes/Greenland with Denmark in EU and 2 of its dependencies/territories (or something akin to that) in Faeroes/Greenland not being in EU so there is some room for manouvre, could be possible UK stays together in some changed form yet component parts of UK can be in EU, would be complicated of course but that's often the case. Really cant see Scotland accepting Brexit without a major fight, really can't, 62% in over all geographic areas is too strong a position imo despite this being a UK vote, such a clear divide.

Do you think Lizzie will get involved with this? - massive turmoil all over UK on this one, UK Govt and opposition is shambolic currently and she's keeping schtumm (sp.). As head of state should she not speak up and re-assure the UK, be people monarchist or not?
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And what say will the SNP have when all the myriad of new trade, security etc agreements are being discussed and agreed - and what role in the redrafting of all laws and regulations not devolved to Holyrood and retained matters?
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
And what say will the SNP have when all the myriad of new trade, security etc agreements are being discussed and agreed - and what role in the redrafting of all laws and regulations not devolved to Holyrood and retained matters?
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Absolutely no idea, have you?:p
 
Scotland are not members of the EU so they are unable to remain in the EU. The UK is a member of the EU and has voted to leave. If Scotland votes for independence before the UK leaves the EU then they will not be a member of the EU at the point they leave the UK. If they are still part of the UK when they leave the EU then Scotland will have withdrawn from the EU as part of the UK. They will in some form need to apply to join the EU and the facts are that Spain and Belgium might veto their application. Sturgeon and the SNP can spout as much garbage as they like but the simple fact is that they are not a member of the EU so cannot possibly remain a member when the UK leaves.

I do however look forward to an independent Scotland joining the EU as it will be fun to watch the SNP spit out their dummy and have a hissy fit every time a decision goes against them which I'm sure will be more often in a union with 27 other countries than in a union with 3 other countries.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Quite possibly

If Scotland is independent at the point the UK secedes - could it be engineered that it would in fact be rUK that secedes and Scotland does not - so Scotland does not actually have to join as it never left?
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Good point. Looking at Article 218, the only thing that Scotland needs to satisfy is the financial criteria. They already have the laws and regs in place. And if the EU took Bulgaria and Rumania in, it would just be a nod and you're in.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
And what say will the SNP have when all the myriad of new trade, security etc agreements are being discussed and agreed - and what role in the redrafting of all laws and regulations not devolved to Holyrood and retained matters?
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It works something like this: The UK will be negotiating the new trade arrangements, security etc and as Scotland is part of the UK just like England, Wales and NI, they will be represented in Parliament where they have a proportional number of MP's .
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Quite possibly

If Scotland is independent at the point the UK secedes - could it be engineered that it would in fact be rUK that secedes and Scotland does not - so Scotland does not actually have to join as it never left?
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But Scotland was never in, it was The UK that was in and it was The UK that departed.

Did you actually read the ballot paper? Did you actually vote?
 
SocketRocket said:
Yes Val, they can ask but only the Westminster Parliament can allow it to happen. Sturgeon is using opportunism at a very bad time that does nothing but create unrest which is not good for the people.
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You do realise that the consent of the devolved parliaments of Scotland, Wales & NI, is required for the UK to leave the EU?
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Which is why the SNP are stating loud, clear and without hesitation that the Scottish government wants Scotland to be in the EU - and might even be independent and wishing to remain in the EU at the point the UK leaves.
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Well that plan lasted all of two days. The European Commission has already ruled that there is no option but for the whole of the UK to exit the EU following the leave vote.

"The official ruling confirmed that 'part' of a member state 'cannot remain in the EU if the member state itself withdraws'."
'Also discussed is the question of whether a "partial withdrawal" could refer to part of the territory of a member state, and therefore the member state "as a whole" does not withdraw but part of it "remains" in the EU.
'It should be noted, however, that the "part of the member state" in question would not itself be a sovereign state, and that it would never have been a formal member of the EU as a sovereign state

So Scotland would have to leave with the rest of the UK and then reapply for membership which could take years and then they could have to introduce border controls with the rest of the UK as well as joining the Euro. Interesting times ahead. Your move Nicola!

 
Old Skier said:
You do realise that in a fully democratic process the people of the U.K. voted to leave the EU and it is for the politicians whatever their preference to carry out those wishes.
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You do realise that my post was in response to Socketrocket's about Westminster blocking indyref2?
 
ColchesterFC said:
Well that plan lasted all of two days. The European Commission has already ruled that there is no option but for the whole of the UK to exit the EU following the leave vote.

"The official ruling confirmed that 'part' of a member state 'cannot remain in the EU if the member state itself withdraws'."
'Also discussed is the question of whether a "partial withdrawal" could refer to part of the territory of a member state, and therefore the member state "as a whole" does not withdraw but part of it "remains" in the EU.
'It should be noted, however, that the "part of the member state" in question would not itself be a sovereign state, and that it would never have been a formal member of the EU as a sovereign state

So Scotland would have to leave with the rest of the UK and then reapply for membership which could take years and then they could have to introduce border controls with the rest of the UK as well as joining the Euro. Interesting times ahead. Your move Nicola!
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Where did this information come from?
 
It's been on several newspaper websites. This link is from the Metro......

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/26/scotl...-able-to-stay-in-the-eu-after-brexit-5967168/

Also interesting that Nicola Sturgeon is talking about Holyrood "refusing to give legislative consent" for the UK to leave the EU and in effect blocking the UK from leaving. I wonder how keen she would have been on Westminster doing the same if the result of the Scottish referendum had been for Scotland to become independent?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244
 
ColchesterFC said:
It's been on several newspaper websites. This link is from the Metro......

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/26/scotl...-able-to-stay-in-the-eu-after-brexit-5967168/

Also interesting that Nicola Sturgeon is talking about Holyrood "refusing to give legislative consent" for the UK to leave the EU and in effect blocking the UK from leaving. I wonder how keen she would have been on Westminster doing the same if the result of the Scottish referendum had been for Scotland to become independent?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244
Click to expand...

She is poison.
 
sawtooth said:
She is poison.
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She's just a normal politician - only in it for herself.

3 weeks ago she stated that the result of the referendum would not be enough to call for Indy 2.

Friday she insisted that she should be part of the exit negotiations.

Yesterday it was "We are talking to EU ministers" .

Today she (although countries have already said they would veto it) insists that Scotland will join the EU. How can she negotiate to exit when she's insitant that she,s in.

Admitted that there have been NO talks with EU ministers.

Just a normal everyday self indulgent political opportunitist.
 
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