Scotland Debate

[Old Skier]

Nope I doubt it. There seems to be a high number of high profile figures who don't believe in the democratic process and are flip flopping on their original statement that they would not be raising the matter again in their lifetime.

 

[Val]

And with the oil price slumping to less than $60 a barrel versus the White paper's worst case scenario of $92, and the North sea oil industry reportedly in crisis, I wonder if any yes voters are now breathing a sigh of relief?

Certainly the yes/no arguments of scaremongering vs over-optimism on the oil issue seem to have been categorically answered.....

I hear what your saying but it's all lies...................

 

[DCB]

If OPEC keep dropping the price, it's going to be more than just us who are screwed :angry: There's been a slow down in support services for a while, this could speed it up and if we lose the experienced people out of the industry it'll take a long time to recover.

 

[Foxholer]

If OPEC keep dropping the price, it's going to be more than just us who are screwed :angry: There's been a slow down in support services for a while, this could speed it up and if we lose the experienced people out of the industry it'll take a long time to recover.

Tough on UK - and Scotland in particular - but I wonder, though it's probably a Tom Clancy inspired fantasy, whether some sort of deal has been done to put a lot more pressure on the Russian economy, which is pretty much dependent on Oil/Gas!

 

[Old Skier]

though it's probably a Tom Clancy inspired fantasy, whether some sort of deal has been done to put a lot more pressure on the Russian economy, which is pretty much dependent on Oil/Gas!

Nail/head

 

[Deleted member 18588]

Tough on UK - and Scotland in particular - but I wonder, though it's probably a Tom Clancy inspired fantasy, whether some sort of deal has been done to put a lot more pressure on the Russian economy, which is pretty much dependent on Oil/Gas!

Don't start writing the novel yet!

It has far more to do with falling demand worldwide and the extensive development of shale gas (fracking) in the USA.

 

[bluewolf]

Tough on UK - and Scotland in particular - but I wonder, though it's probably a Tom Clancy inspired fantasy, whether some sort of deal has been done to put a lot more pressure on the Russian economy, which is pretty much dependent on Oil/Gas!

Yup. Russia in financial meltdown would appear to be a short term benefit of the bottoming out of oil prices.. I wonder if anyone has forecast the long term effects of a ruined Russian economy?
Note - I haven't, but in my experience, short term benefits usually have long term negatives...

 

[Liverbirdie]

Don't start writing the novel yet!

It has far more to do with falling demand worldwide and the extensive development of shale gas (fracking) in the USA.

USA in recent months has now become a net exporter, for the first time in decades, if ever at all.

Lower demand worldwide, OPEC not cutting supply, as individual countries don't want to lose market share.

I don't know the upshot, but I see OPEC as equally at fault for the recession as bankers. Why were oil prices so high in the recession, which to me turbo-charged the recession. All goods have to be shipped one way or the other, and the price of fuel to households also curbed household spending. Double whammy.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

And with the oil price slumping to less than $60 a barrel versus the White paper's worst case scenario of $92, and the North sea oil industry reportedly in crisis, I wonder if any yes voters are now breathing a sigh of relief?

Certainly the yes/no arguments of scaremongering vs over-optimism on the oil issue seem to have been categorically answered.....

I've seen this analysis a few places today, it usually verges on smugness at the loss of value in oil and unemployment.

An argument could be made that the pro-indy lobbying for an oil fund to see us through times like this was correct all along, but don't let that get in the way of kicking those who wanted independence.The near-joyous reaction to this pretty bleak news is quite frankly, weird.

Scotland gdp excluding nso is 99% ok UK btw, and was always, always treated as a bonus.But you know that.

 

[SocketRocket]

Bit off topic

 

[FairwayDodger]

I've seen this analysis a few places today, it usually verges on smugness at the loss of value in oil and unemployment.

An argument could be made that the pro-indy lobbying for an oil fund to see us through times like this was correct all along, but don't let that get in the way of kicking those who wanted independence.The near-joyous reaction to this pretty bleak news is quite frankly, weird.

Scotland gdp excluding nso is 99% ok UK btw, and was always, always treated as a bonus.But you know that.

Not at all. The populist argument was always that independent Scotland would be an oil-rich utopia and anyone who questioned the nats projections was ridiculed as a feartie or a scaremonger.

So I'm not rejoicing at the depressing news but it's important the SNP are not allowed to brush it under the carpet so they can rush us into another referendum.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Not at all. The populist argument was always that independent Scotland would be an oil-rich utopia and anyone who questioned the nats projections was ridiculed as a feartie or a scaremonger.

So I'm not rejoicing at the depressing news but it's important the SNP are not allowed to brush it under the carpet so they can rush us into another referendum.

Nonsense, utter nonsense.Looks like you'd swallowed the line being spun by unionists.At no point, at no point did anyone seriously campaigning for independence suggest some kind of 'oil-rich utopia', so you're either lying or naive enough to swallow how things were portrayed during a pretty heated campaign.What was suggested that having control of all financial levers (including oil) Scotland could be socially more equal.We'll not know for the forseeable if that is possible, but don't tell lies and act all smug.

you're not David Cochrane by any chance?

 

[Old Skier]

so they can rush us into another referendum.

They will try. They weren't keen on the last democratly achieved answer.

 

[Val]

Nonsense, utter nonsense.Looks like you'd swallowed the line being spun by unionists.At no point, at no point did anyone seriously campaigning for independence suggest some kind of 'oil-rich utopia', so you're either lying or naive enough to swallow how things were portrayed during a pretty heated campaign.What was suggested that having control of all financial levers (including oil) Scotland could be socially more equal.We'll not know for the forseeable if that is possible, but don't tell lies and act all smug.

you're not David Cochrane by any chance?

If not then why all the talk of oil on the west coast too, or is that all made up lies too?

 

[Adi2Dassler]

If not then why all the talk of oil on the west coast too, or is that all made up lies too?

Because it would be an extra income source.A source that is possibly being kept hidden just now to allow the movement of weapons of mass destruction in and out of faslane.

 

[FairwayDodger]

Nonsense, utter nonsense.Looks like you'd swallowed the line being spun by unionists.At no point, at no point did anyone seriously campaigning for independence suggest some kind of 'oil-rich utopia', so you're either lying or naive enough to swallow how things were portrayed during a pretty heated campaign.What was suggested that having control of all financial levers (including oil) Scotland could be socially more equal.We'll not know for the forseeable if that is possible, but don't tell lies and act all smug.

you're not David Cochrane by any chance?

Sorry but you're talking rubbish now. The oil price has dipped to less than half the value the SNP used as the basis for their propaganda.

"oil-rich utopia" is my own poetic licence rather than official SNP policy but the implication was clear.

 

[DCB]

I can remember , not that long ago, when oil hit $10 and huge swathes of office space suddenly became available in Aberdeen. In the intervening twenty years it's been all over the scale, up to $140 - $150 and now heading way back down.

Interesting link here from way back in 2009

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aox.KsSOudpA

I wonder ....

 

[FairwayDodger]

I can remember , not that long ago, when oil hit $10 and huge swathes of office space suddenly became available in Aberdeen. In the intervening twenty years it's been all over the scale, up to $140 - $150 and now heading way back down.

Interesting link here from way back in 2009

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aox.KsSOudpA

I wonder ....

So the price will be somewhere between $10 and $200, depending on which estimate you believe! Experts, eh? What is it they say about statistics?

 

[Old Skier]

I see the hypocritical little man is at it again http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...nce-alex-salmond_n_6359180.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

So the wishes of those living in Scotland counts for nothing.

 

[CMAC]

Mr Salmond said: "A taxi driver said to me that he had voted No to independence but he would do it differently next time. I think we would win if there was another referendum."


there you have it! that's the level of stability and facts he uses to fight for independence. Deluded fantasist who successfully recruited many 'temporary' followers