Scotland Debate

[SocketRocket]

I wasnt the one that mention it hence why im waiting for the response.

You asked the question so its not unreasonable for you to be asked to clarify it.

 

[Foxholer]

It may be easier if you could elaborate on what defines an illegal war. In Your Opinion of course?

Given that the reference was a quote, there's really no need to do so!

And there has certainly been a recent 'legal' war that turned out to be based on a lie - as a leading expert, subsequently driven to suicide by 'the machine' had already told them! Something I will never forgive Blair for causing!

 

[Deleted member 15344]

You asked the question so its not unreasonable for you to be asked to clarify it.

The question was asking for clarification from the person that brought up the illegal wars

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

There are lies based upon deliberate manipulation of evidence to an end - and there are actions based upon incorrect analysis of the evidence and assessment of the risk.

 

[SocketRocket]

Given that the reference was a quote, there's really no need to do so!

And there has certainly been a recent 'legal' war that turned out to be based on a lie - as a leading expert, subsequently driven to suicide by 'the machine' had already told them! Something I will never forgive Blair for causing!

I would like to understand what criteria defines a war as illegal.

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

I would like to understand what criteria defines a war as illegal.

Quote frome research on the web:

"According to current international law, a war is illegal except when one of the following applies.....
a. It is in accordance with a UN resolution to go to war when all other options have broken down;
b. It is in self-defence (i.e. a country has been attacked)
c. A war needs to be formally declared by a sovereign state after all negotiations have broken down (eg. 3/9/1939, Britain and France legally stated that a state of war existed between them and Germany since Germany had invaded Poland illegally and refused to withdraw).


Also, what politicians like to do nowadays is to call what is a naked act of aggression or an unwarranted invasion a "war" in order to give it some sort of legitimacy.


Thus....
the US-led attack on Afghanistan in 2003 was ILLEGAL;
the US-led invasion of Iraq is and was ILLEGAL;
the Israeli onslaught upon Gaza is and was ILLEGAL.


Whilst....
Britain's limited war with Argentina was legal as it was undertaken to repel an illegal invasion;
The Allied response to Saddam Hussain's invasion of Kuwait was legal as it was in defence of a sovereign state which requested help to repel a foreign invader."

 

[Val]

Phil, the polls are all over the place, nobody in Scotland takes any notice of them.

We do sometime tell little porkies to the pollsters just to keep them on their toes.

The last Scottish election should have been be a good indicator.

Why would it be? It would bear no relation. The last election counted seats the referendum will count heads.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

And NATO were involved in both Afghan and Iraq

 

[Foxholer]

I think Israel argues that they are merely acting in self-defence - and there is enough bombardment of Israeli territory to back that up.

The fact that the 'retaliation' appears out of all proportion to the threat makes no difference - especially with US as an 'ally'!

Blair's great exercise of legitimising joining Bush's 'mission' was pure PR! That conflict was demonstrably illegal - if in a good cause!

I does also mean that the 'illegal' in the quote was valid.

 

[Foxholer]

Why would it be? It would bear no relation. The last election counted seats the referendum will count heads.

The Polls were vastly different to the results! Which is what Doon's point was - though I think they are more accurate this time.

 

[Val]

The Polls were vastly different to the results! Which is what Doon's point was - though I think they are more accurate this time.

Maybe I read it wrong then, i read it as we should look at the last election as a guide to how it will go this time which in hindsight is even more nonsense than i first thought.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I was pointing out that in the last Scottish election not one poll in Scotland indicated an overall majority for the SNP.

 

[Val]

I was pointing out that in the last Scottish election not one poll in Scotland indicated an overall majority for the SNP.

Which is a fair point, however they did point to an SNP win, they rarely get it completely wrong.

Time will tell, not long now.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

There seems to be a degree of antagonism being driven here by exforces personnel over the last page.

I think the war in Iraq was illegal as it was started based on a lie.I don't think anyone apportions any of that blame of the men and woman who went and fought and died there, only the politicians, of any party or nation, who sent them there under false pretense.

I also think the war in Afghanistan was based on flimsy reasoning too.No co incidence that both countries attacked have massive natural resources imo.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

There seems to be a degree of antagonism being driven here by exforces personnel over the last page.

I think the war in Iraq was illegal as it was started based on a lie.I don't think anyone apportions any of that blame of the men and woman who went and fought and died there, only the politicians, of any party or nation, who sent them there under false pretense.

I also think the war in Afghanistan was based on flimsy reasoning too.No co incidence that both countries attacked have massive natural resources imo.

Actually what started it was a remark that if Scotland were Independant then they wouldn't have taken part in illegal wars

I asked what if they were part of NATO to which the response from Doon was - NATO don't take part on illegal wars to which I asked what were the latest illegal wars so I can tell him if NATO were involved

Whether Iraq or Afghan were legal etc was something I was discussing - it was more the flippant remark about Scotland not being involved in illegal wars etc

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Actually what started it was a remark that if Scotland were Independant then they wouldn't have taken part in illegal wars

I asked what if they were part of NATO to which the response from Doon was - NATO don't take part on illegal wars to which I asked what were the latest illegal wars so I can tell him if NATO were involved

Whether Iraq or Afghan were legal etc was something I was discussing - it was more the flippant remark about Scotland not being involved in illegal wars etc

I'd hope Scotland weren't involved in any wars tbh, unless someone actually tried to invade Scotland.Works well for countries of comparable size like Iceland/Costa Rica.I'd honestly like Scotland to have no military, but realise my views on promoting humanitarian work instead of military might is seen as naive on these boards, so no point in following that thread.

I think any country invading any other country should be illegal, whether that's Nazi Germany,Galtieri Argentina or Blair UK.Arming yourself with a weapon that can take a life then specifically seeking out another person to carry out that threat is, to me, the ultimate level of insanity/evil.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I'd hope Scotland weren't involved in any wars tbh, unless someone actually tried to invade Scotland.Works well for countries of comparable size like Iceland/Costa Rica.I'd honestly like Scotland to have no military, but realise my views on promoting humanitarian work instead of military might is seen as naive on these boards, so no point in following that thread.

I think any country invading any other country should be illegal, whether that's Nazi Germany,Galtieri Argentina or Blair UK.Arming yourself with a weapon that can take a life then specifically seeking out another person to carry out that threat is, to me, the ultimate level of insanity/evil.

Scotland will be a part of NATO if they get independence and as such will take part in NATO exercises etc etc

It is impossible for Scotland to have no military

Oh and Iceland have had a presence in both Iraq and Afghan

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Scotland will be a part of NATO if they get independence and as such will take part in NATO exercises etc etc

It is impossible for Scotland to have no military

Oh and Iceland have had a presence in both Iraq and Afghan

Nothing is impossible, as Iceland shows.They have no Army, are part of NATO and have members of The Icelandic Peacekeeping Guard in Afghanistan.

So you assertion that Scotland having no military is impossible I'd have to disagree with.Unlikely, yes.Impossible, no.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Nothing is impossible, as Iceland shows.They have no Army, are part of NATO and have members of The Icelandic Peacekeeping Guard in Afghanistan.

So you assertion that Scotland having no military is impossible I'd have to disagree with.Unlikely, yes.Impossible, no.

Iceland isn't part of an island with other countries that do have military presence and Scotland will never ever be daft enough to leave their borders open and get rid of all those current serving Scottish military. Scotland isn't Iceland unless you detach it and move it thousands of miles away in the middle of nowhere providing zero strategic benefit to anyone

So yes it is impossible in the world we live in today

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Iceland isn't part of an island with other countries that do have military presence and Scotland will never ever be daft enough to leave their borders open and get rid of all those current serving Scottish military. Scotland isn't Iceland unless you detach it and move it thousands of miles away in the middle of nowhere providing zero strategic benefit to anyone

So yes it is impossible in the world we live in today

I know you refuse to back down once you've decided on your point of view so I'll not keep going with this (I'm not sure why I indulge you at all on this thread considering your opinion counts for zero when alls said and done) but because rUK wants to continue to spend money militarising themselves it doesn't follow that Scotland would need to.