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Scotland Debate

Valentino said:
But they are looking forward, they are looking at the negatives of a yes vote and the impact that has on Scotland as a nation. That is also forward thinking.
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It is forward thinking, but predicting outcomes following a YES vote doesn't tell anyone anything about the future of Scotland in UK eyes following a NO vote.

And so the 'uncertain's will be in the ballot box on Sept 18th and many will be thinking they don't really know what YES will actually be like, but aren't really at all keen on the 'status quo' and how things have been over the last decades.

So do you vote NO knowing that if you don't like the outcome you know that only have yourself to blame and you can't complain - after all you weren't actually promised anything new or different if you voted NO.

Or do you vote YES - and if things don't go as hoped and promised you know that you can take it out on your elected representatives in Holyrood who got you in the mess.

Who knows. But by not giving a vision for the future of Scotland following a NO, BT/Westminster are taking a big gamble I think.
 
Will things not stay the same after a No vote ?

The UK as it is are under no obligation at all to change anything if a No vote happens.

If they are not saying anything does that not suggest there is going to be no changes - so people voting no know what they will get - the same as now

It's the only vote at the moment that carries any guarantees with it.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Or do you vote YES - and if things don't go as hoped and promised you know that you can take it out on your elected representatives in Holyrood who got you in the mess.
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And how is that going to help a screwed Scotland?
If there is a Yes vote and it all goes to rat-poo in Scotland, yes they can take it out on whoever is in charge - but they're still screwed...there's no way back.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
It is forward thinking, but predicting outcomes following a YES vote doesn't tell anyone anything about the future of Scotland in UK eyes following a NO vote.
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Who says it has to, what has to change in the event of a NO. Completely understand your sentiment but I see exactly what the BT campaign are trying to do to the YES campaign, at every chance they will undermine their visions and the more doubt they will sow into the voters mind the more the voters doubt then the less they are likely to vote for change. That is their obvious strategy IMO.

For some reason people seem to think there has to be this big laid out plan for the future of Scotland post a NO vote from the BT campaign, whats there to plan? We know what it is like as part of the union currently therefore post NO we know the likely future.
 
Valentino said:
For some reason people seem to think there has to be this big laid out plan for the future of Scotland post a NO vote from the BT campaign, whats there to plan? We know what it is like as part of the union currently therefore post NO we know the likely future.
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Nothing HAS to change - but what will?

We are talking about the future of the country - not just something that the electorate can change after 5 yrs if they don't like it. YES are trying to set out a vision and a plan - BT aren't.

All I am saying here is that BT simply offering undecideds 'more of the same' is risky when many undecideds won't like what they've had over the last years and decades.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Nothing HAS to change - but what will?

We are talking about the future of the country - not just something that the electorate can change after 5 yrs if they don't like it. YES are trying to set out a vision and a plan - BT aren't.

All I am saying here is that BT simply offering undecideds 'more of the same' is risky when many undecideds won't like what they've had over the last years and decades.
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Well how about you take it that nothing will change because it's not the rest of the UK that wants change - if No wins then we carry on until the next election

How about many undecideds actually are ok with what's going so will when it comes to the crunch could vote no
 
Imurg said:
And how is that going to help a screwed Scotland?
If there is a Yes vote and it all goes to rat-poo in Scotland, yes they can take it out on whoever is in charge - but they're still screwed...there's no way back.
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That rather implies they'll screw it up! Or it will somehow get screwed!

It strikes me that they are no more likely and probably less likely to screw up their own country. and if they do so, the people are able to get rid of them far easier, something that's impossible currently.

And they are probably in at least as good a position as rUK to withstand the likes of the inevitable energy shock that is coming up in the next 5 years!

There are enough example of Scotland size economies that are known to work all around the Globe, so there's no need to consider failure. It's really just a case of whether the Scottish people actually want to split.

There will be some significant overheads though, both in terms of size of Government/Civil service and more complexity for Business, but that won't force Companies to move from Scotland imo. If they deal with Scotland, the complexities will still be there, even if they are not based in Scotland.
 
Old Skier said:
And we know that neither side are giving all the facts so why is it that the Yes guys on here only point the finger at one side. Nothing balanced about the argument.
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In all honesty I do not think there are many if any YES guy on here.

There are three or four looking for a balanced debate and trying to right the many 'natural' assumptions from the non voting NO guys constantly give out.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
In all honesty I do not think there are many if any YES guy on here.

There are three or four looking for a balanced debate and trying to right the many 'natural' assumptions from the non voting NO guys constantly give out.
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What about the natural assumptions that you see from the YES voters ? Or do they not appear ?

Haven't seen much "balance" from people who it's clear want a Yes vote
 
In the end it will boil down to, 'what system do you trust the most to look after the interests of Scotland's children'.

The NO guys have been losing that debate for quite a few years. That is why the SNP have risen to power.
The SNP have also delivered decent policies and budgets. They are more akin to the way Scots think.
 
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Doon frae Troon said:
In the end it will boil down to, 'what system do you trust the most to look after the interests of Scotland's children'.

The NO guys have been losing that debate for quite a few years. That is why the SNP have risen to power.
The SNP have also delivered decent policies and budgets. They are more akin to the way Scots.
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But that doesn't mean the Scottish people want independence.
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Nothing HAS to change - but what will?

We are talking about the future of the country - not just something that the electorate can change after 5 yrs if they don't like it. YES are trying to set out a vision and a plan - BT aren't.

All I am saying here is that BT simply offering undecideds 'more of the same' is risky when many undecideds won't like what they've had over the last years and decades.
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No one knows if anything will, what is certain right now is nothing will because as far as I'm led to believe no one has said there will be change post NO
 
Valentino said:
But that doesn't mean the Scottish people want independence.
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That's right Val, I have been pretty impressed with the way the SNP have managed Scotland in the last few years.
At the start I have favoured Devo Max but that now seems to be a fudge and will not solve the wishes of many Scots.

What this debate has proved to me is that Scotland have not been getting the massive handouts from Westminster that many folk thought. Non Scots thought that there was no way we could manage either alone or within the UK without the Westminster subsidy.

There are quite a few SNP voters who do not want to see the breakup of the Union. There are also Labour and Tory supporters who will vote for an independent Scotland.

If the No vote wins I hope that the rUK will be aware of our ability to stand on our own feet and show us some more respect.
 
Doon frae Troon said:
That's right Val, I have been pretty impressed with the way the SNP have managed Scotland in the last few years.
At the start I have favoured Devo Max but that now seems to be a fudge and will not solve the wishes of many Scots.

What this debate has proved to me is that Scotland have not been getting the massive handouts from Westminster that many folk thought. Non Scots thought that there was no way we could manage either alone or within the UK without the Westminster subsidy.

There are quite a few SNP voters who do not want to see the breakup of the Union. There are also Labour and Tory supporters who will vote for an independent Scotland.

If the No vote wins I hope that the rUK will be aware of our ability to stand on our own feet and show us some more respect.
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Thats very much a two way street
 
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