Scotland Debate

[Beezerk]

and a 'fairer society'.

Yes I heard that phrase bandied around quite a lot on Radio 5 this morning, but just what is this 'fairer society' they are on about?

 

[FairwayDodger]

A degree of truth in here, along with a degree of myth.

Point 1: you are in bed with the tories, no matter how unpalatable some find that.That's a fact.
Point 2 :The entire basis of BT is founded in 'project fear', a name they gave it themselves.It's fairly obvious that up until recently the BT mantra has been negative,.No one can dispute that.
Point 3: Unpatriotic.Only eedjits use that, like eedjits use blood and sand and nazism in reference to nationalism
Point 4: I think there is a degree of being embarrassed to vote no.Kinda like not being invited to a aprty then saying you had other plans anyway...a no voter gave me that line btw, he's still voting no.
Point 5: you have no constitution, no on ein The UK does, and thats kinda one of the points to voting YES.

Point 1: Exactly one of the deceitful, scheming lines the nats trump out. I agree with the tories regarding independence and disagree with them on practically everything else. As does Alistair Darling etc... But you lot try and equate the two. This tactic is disgraceful.
Point 2: They are arguing against a proposal and are therefore bound to put a negative case. Salmond et al paint a rosy picture, BT are quite entitled to dispute his unbridled optimism. I don't hear the level of negativity you and other "yes" folk claim. Whenever BT state the benefits of the union the nats twist it into "fear" of losing that benefit. Another ploy, annoyingly successful. There is no doubt that "yes" have controlled the "debate".
Point 3: Agreed, but we've all heard it.
Point 4: Yip. It's good to see so many folk fired up and enthusiastic about something. Shame they're wrong.
Point 5: I was referring to "constitutional" set up in broad terms rather than an actual constitution but you're wrong on this one, if I remember my higher modern studies correctly . We do have a constitution, but it is unwritten.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Point 1: Exactly one of the deceitful, scheming lines the nats trump out. I agree with the tories regarding independence and disagree with them on practically everything else. As does Alistair Darling etc... But you lot try and equate the two. This tactic is disgraceful.
Point 2: They are arguing against a proposal and are therefore bound to put a negative case. Salmond et al paint a rosy picture, BT are quite entitled to dispute his unbridled optimism. I don't hear the level of negativity you and other "yes" folk claim. Whenever BT state the benefits of the union the nats twist it into "fear" of losing that benefit. Another ploy, annoyingly successful. There is no doubt that "yes" have controlled the "debate".
Point 3: Agreed, but we've all heard it.
Point 4: Yip. It's good to see so many folk fired up and enthusiastic about something. Shame they're wrong.
Point 5: I was referring to "constitutional" set up in broad terms rather than an actual constitution but you're wrong on this one, if I remember my higher modern studies correctly . We do have a constitution, but it is unwritten.

re: being in bed with the tories, I'm discussing the referendum or a referendum thread and you are in bed with the tories on this subject, just like your in bed with lib dems and any other group affiliated with better together.

And we don;t have a constitution, we have a collection of laws that someone rather tiredly referred to as the unwritten constitution and it stuck.We do not have a constitution.

 

[IanG]

The vast majority of no voters have their heads down quietly waiting to finally put the whole nonsense to bed next week.

I hope you're right, and I hope it doesn't rain on Thursday ! - looks like we need all the no voters to turn out. The yes vote will turn out whatever the weather. Ironic really that Scotland's future may turn on the weather.

 

[FairwayDodger]

re: being in bed with the tories, I'm discussing the referendum or a referendum thread and you are in bed with the tories on this subject, just like your in bed with lib dems and any other group affiliated with better together.

And we don;t have a constitution, we have a collection of laws that someone rather tiredly referred to as the unwritten constitution and it stuck.We do not have a constitution.

You are correct on this one issue. The nats are neglecting to specify that "on this issue you are in bed with the tories", as you did initially, it is duplicitous and typical of the campaign "yes" are running.

We do have a constitution, sorry you don't like it, but it exists even if it is somewhat nebulous.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

You are correct on this one issue. The nats are neglecting to specify that "on this issue you are in bed with the tories", as you did initially, it is duplicitous and typical of the campaign "yes" are running.

We do have a constitution, sorry you don't like it, but it exists even if it is somewhat nebulous.

We're discussing the referendum, nothing else.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nebulous

I'm looking for something a wee bit more than that, we all should be.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

[video]https://skynews.grabyo.com/g/v/9mDFHtctx8O[/video]

Good to see Prescott up and campaigning for the YES vote....

 

[CheltenhamHacker]

I'm looking for something a wee bit more than that, we all should be.

Why would it make a difference, written or unwritten?

 

[FairwayDodger]

We're discussing the referendum, nothing else.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nebulous

I'm looking for something a wee bit more than that, we all should be.

Indeed but you and I both know the "yes" mob are trying to equate all the pro-union parties with the tories across a spectrum of policies. It is disingenuous, when challenged, to rein in and claim we're only discussing the referendum, you are smart enough to know the tactic being employed.

I happen to agree with you regarding a written constitution but it's not a reason (for me at least) to break up our country.

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Why would it make a difference, written or unwritten?

something unwritten isn't legal, I'd have thought?

 

[Slab]

That B&Q chap is having a busy week so far...

Monday - Lunch with PM to get instructions
Tuesday - Tell Scots we'll stick up prices in-store
Wednesday - Resign!


Thursday - Get new motto to replace 'Do It Yourself'

 

[Foxholer]

something unwritten isn't legal, I'd have thought?

Verbal Contracts certainly are!

Written Constitutions can also become 'out of date', whereas Constitutional Laws that become out of date are, generally, introduced or repealed/brought up-to-date. Data Protection is an example, if not necessarily for good reasons!

There is quite a debate about the real reason the 2nd Amendment (the right to bear arms) was included in the US Constitution. And the English Bill of Rights, that it may have been based on, was hardly 'universal' either - being more a reflection of the squabbles of the time!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And so we come to understand that what the three Westminster Parties are tossing into the debate around new powers does not break purdah rules because the statements come from political parties and not the government. And purdah is designed to prevent a government coming up with new offers and sweetners to the electorate in the lead up to an election. Seems semantics working hard here as all three parties seem to be promising that whatever party is in power post 2015 election - the government will deliver these promises.

And further - PMQs today William Hague was standing at the despatch box telling all and sundry that new powers will be forthcoming - hmmm. That looked and sounded like government to me.

And Edward Leigh (or was it Christopher Choate) for one was not at all happy with his party/government offering Scotland all this new stuff without any debate in the Commons. Not happy at all.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

In the event of a NO vote can anyone tell me how all of these new panic stricken sweeteners will become law.........in 3 months.

Do our MP's have no say in the matter whatsoever.

Perhaps our newbie Alex Darling can answer that one.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

In the event of a NO vote can anyone tell me how all of these new panic stricken sweeteners will become law.........in 3 months.

Do our MP's have no say in the matter whatsoever.

Perhaps our newbie Alex Darling can answer that one.

I think the timetable was to have the powers and timeline to deliver defined 25th January 2015 as can't see how they could actually get the bills through parliament. Especially as English, Welsh and NOI MPs will demand a say both for what they want Scotland to get and what they want to change for their countries, regions and cities. Maybe you can deliver additional Scottish powers independent of any considerations on what might be reqiured or happen beyond Scotland's border - but I just can't see it.

Also the fact that it is clear and 'admitted' that the government has agreed with Labour and Lib Dems to provide the additional powers I then do not really understand how this is not a de facto government statement of offer - and so something that breaks the purdah rules. Anyway that's for them to justify,

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Scotland tonight asked Nicola Sturgeon to debate Ed Milliband tonight, she said aye, he said No Thanks.

why would he do that?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Scotland tonight asked Nicola Sturgeon to debate Ed Milliband tonight, she said aye, he said No Thanks.

why would he do that?

Listening on radio he's currently talking emotional 'stay with us' guff in Cumbernauld about how he wants to be taking his son to where Mr Miliband the elder served during the war - in a united country. Emotive stuff Ed but you need to do better than that. You have a chance to save the union - don't blow it with too much emotive stuff.

 

[One Planer]

Scotland tonight asked Nicola Sturgeon to debate Ed Milliband tonight, she said aye, he said No Thanks, I wouldn't be able to say more than two words without being interupted.

why would he do that?

Fixed that for you Adi' :thup:

 

[Adi2Dassler]

Fixed that for you Adi' :thup:

I seriously doubt there is one politician in either parliament who could best wee Nicola in an argument, she's some lady.

 

[One Planer]

I seriously doubt there is one politician in either parliament who could best wee Nicola in an argument, she's some lady.

That goes for most women doesn't it?

I rarely come out winning against the wife