Scotland Debate

[Doon frae Troon]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27159618

There you go.

 

[stevie_r]

Probably the same kind of thoughts as the UK towards the Channel Islands

The Channel Islands are not a part of the UK though.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27159618

There you go.

And the little teddy throw about the BBC ?

 

[Doon frae Troon]

And the little teddy throw about the BBC ?

They suspended their membership. [you obviously didn't read that far.]

 

[Deleted member 15344]

They suspended their membership. [you obviously didn't read that far.]

I read that and ? The problem being ?

 

[Old Skier]

Well can you actually state what iScotland actually needs to be defended against?

Norway and Sweden are similar sized economies and don't have issues with defence, even though they are rather closer to the perceived power to be defended against!

Norway do not defend themselves alone. Major exercises go on every year in Norway and are NATO partners and Sweden has more heavy armour than Britain.

 

[Old Skier]

Well, to continue the Norway analogy, Norway refuses to allow Nuclear Weapons to be based in Norway. Sound familiar?

It is at the forefront of the de-Nuke movement too.

I believe it refuses to allow land based nuclear weapons to be based in Norway.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Norway do not defend themselves alone. Major exercises go on every year in Norway and are NATO partners and Sweden has more heavy armour than Britain.

We have had convoys of Norwegian troops exercising at the Mull of Galloway over the last couple of months.
The Cape Wrath annual bomb party is also one of NATO's major 'all services' exercises.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Nigel Farage's Ukippers 11 points in the lead for the UK European Elections.

Is that not a hell of a boost for Scottish independence?

 

[Old Skier]

One of the SNP breaking ranks?

 

[Val]

According to the BBC, Moodys report that Scotland will have a lower credit rating than the rest of the UK following a YES vote.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27247870

https://www.moodys.com/research/Moodys-Scottish-independence-unlikely-to-have-rating-implications-for-UK--PR_298421

A key quote is this IMO

"While there are significant uncertainties associated with Scottish arrangements post-independence, an 'A' rating is perhaps the most likely at the outset, but with risks tilted to the downside.

Whilst John Swinney would prefer to uses Standard and Poor's assement.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/209646043/Standard-and-Poor-s-Key-Considerations-For-Rating-An-Independent-Scotland

His quote makes me laugh

"The Westminster government are just about the last people who should be attempting to make political capital on the issue of credit ratings, given that the No campaign's previous boasts came unstuck when the UK was stripped of its AAA status by international agencies, while other, smaller European nations retained a top rating.

It's not the government saying this John it's the ratings agency.

More doubt being sown into the YES campaign which is a positive for the NO campaign.

So who is right?

 

[Val]

Alex Salmond no spouting more nonsense. He'll endear himself to the voters with this article

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/alex-salmond-scotland-is-a-nation-of-drunks-9313434.html

Alex Salmond: 'Scotland is a nation of drunks'

The First Minister said drinking culture in Scotland had changed since his youth

Kashmira Gander
Thursday, 1 May 2014

Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond has suggested that Scotland is a “nation of drunks” and that he is “significantly” concerned by the nation’s relationship with alcohol.

In an interview with former Labour spin-doctor Alistair Campbell which was published in GQ magazine on Thursday, Mr Salmond explained that apparent drinking problems stemmed from: “the availability of cheap alcohol and the cultural changes that has introduced.”

“When we were young we would go out for a drink. People now go out drunk, having drunk cheap booze before. That is social change for the worse,” he said.

“Then there is something deep about Scotland’s relationship with alcohol that is about self-image – lack of confidence, maybe, as a nation – and we do have to do something about it.”

He then went on to defend the Scottish Government’s plan to introduce minimum alcohol pricing, which has been criticised by the whisky industry.

“I promote whisky,” Mr Salmond told Mr Campbell.

“I do it on the argument that it’s a quality drink, has a worldwide cachet and that its recent great success in markets like China is about social emulation and authenticity, not cheapness.

"My argument is that if you are promoting it as authentic and of great worth, you cannot promote it from a nation of drunks. You’ll never be able to say it is healthy and life giving, but you can say it’s authentic and high quality," he said.

Jackson Carlaw, Scottish Conservative health spokesman, told the Telegraph: “It would be offensive to hear from a foreigner, but for our own First Minister to hold these views is simply breath-taking and frankly unacceptable in a national leader.”

A Scottish Government spokesman said on Wednesday: "In this interview, the First Minister was simply spelling out the clear risks for Scotland as a nation if we do not take radical action to tackle problem drinking".
Read more: Divorcing Scotland could be very costly
Scots warned against playing politics with Glasgow Games
The Scottish referendum is a judgement of both the head and heart

Mr Salmond's comments were published a day after judges at the Court of Session in Edinburgh ruled that a legal challenge by the Scotch Whisky Association (SWA) against the SNP’s minimum alcohol pricing plans must be referred to the European Union Court of Justice.

The Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Act 2012 was passed by Holyrood in June 2012, paving the way for the introduction of a preferred minimum price of 50p per unit.

But the SWA argued that minimum pricing legislation breaches European law.

Its legal bid was rejected by Lord Doherty in May 2013 following an Outer House hearing in the Court of Session in January 2013.

An appeal to the court's Inner House, heard by Lord Eassie, Lord Menzies and Lord Brodie, took place in February.

Excerpts from Mr Salmond’s GQ interview also caused controversy on Sunday, after it was revealed that he admires “certain aspects” of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

“Well, obviously, I don't approve of a range of Russian actions, but I think Putin's more effective than the press he gets, I would have thought, and you can see why he carries support in Russia,” Mr Salmond said

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Except there is more than just a kernal of truth in what he says...

 

[Val]

Except there is more than just a kernal of truth in what he says...

Can't say I disagree entirely, my point being why say it just now when fighting tooth and nail for every vote?

 

[CMAC]

Can't say I disagree entirely, my point being why say it just now when fighting tooth and nail for every vote?

because he's no that bright...........


he does fit in the strapline ' you have to be dence to vote independence'............

why are the BT guys not adopting this strapline

 

[Hobbit]

Except there is more than just a kernal of truth in what he says...

Can't say I disagree entirely, my point being why say it just now when fighting tooth and nail for every vote?

I think that's a little unfair, and perhaps stereotyping. Up until earlier this year I was in various parts of Scotland every month for the last 10yrs. The sub culture that exists around the fringes of society is in pretty much every country in Europe, and that won't go away whatever a govt tries to do.

Equally, I've found it very pleasent to see the responsible attitude displayed by many, many Scots especially with regards to including their children when out for a meal.

Its nice to see that if you gain indepedence you'll be taking the Nanny state mentallity with you...

 

[Doon frae Troon]

Can't say I disagree entirely, my point being why say it just now when fighting tooth and nail for every vote?

I think he sees it as a vote winner, it is also what he has been saying for the last 4 to 5 years.

Jings the spin doctors are being very selective with their quotes from the old Alisdair Campbell interview.
They seem to be risking the wrath of any don't know voters who do have half a brain.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

And so the Sunday Herald comes out of the closet they are for YES - with the editorial line (OK - it has been out of the closet for a good while just not made this declaration)

“Scotland is an ancient nation and a modern society. We understand the past, as best we can, and guess at the future. But history is as nothing to the lives of the children being born now, this morning, in the cities, towns and villages of this country.

“On their behalf, we assert a claim to a better, more decent, more just future in which a country's governments will be ruled always by the decisions of its citizens.”

But no-one pays attention to newspapers these days so maybe no big deal.

 

[CMAC]

And so the Sunday Herald comes out of the closet they are for YES - with the editorial line (OK - it has been out of the closet for a good while just not made this declaration)

“Scotland is an ancient nation and a modern society. We understand the past, as best we can, and guess at the future. But history is as nothing to the lives of the children being born now, this morning, in the cities, towns and villages of this country.

“On their behalf, we assert a claim to a better, more decent, more just future in which a country's governments will be ruled always by the decisions of its citizens.”

But no-one pays attention to newspapers these days so maybe no big deal.

so they are just quoting what a democracy should be Thought we lived in one in the UK!

 

[Doon frae Troon]

I see Wasteminster have allowed Scottish devolution from the 'bedroom tax' bill.

Everyone seems quiet on that one.