Scorecards should be fluid

[PhilTheFragger]

Ok grandad. I guess you don’t like online booking systems, gps, or any other technology. A digital scorecard is as simple in technology terms as they come. It’s called an “app” and would be available on a “smartphone”. Now back to the rocking chair, I’ll get you a blanket.

Hey, no need for jibes please.

It’s more of a mindset thing than changing the scorecard system

It’s a par 5, low golfer will expect to get to the green in 3. High golfer maybe can’t do that, so needs to trim his expectations to get there in 4,

The handicap and scorecard will take care of themselves, it’s mindset management and expectations for each hole that I’m talking about

 

[evemccc]

See my response to Phil. But also most people don’t really know this at all. They just work out after a round how they’re net score was. It doesn’t give insight into expectations before and during any individual hole. Knowing this for real changes perceptions, and like a psychological domino, expectations and approach.

I think ‘some’ golfers do it already….I’ve played with plenty of people who when playing in a friendly game mark their cards with how many strokes they get on each hole, or tell their PP if it’s a friendly match play or if the PP is marking their card

Knowing how many strokes you get is fairly commonplace and all about course management

I get your point about expectations and psychology - it’s important, but I think you underestimate how many do this

 

[IanM]

Crikey. Too much thinking.

Surely just think, "I get two shots here!"

 

[inc0gnito]

I think ‘some’ golfers do it already….I’ve played with plenty of people who when playing in a friendly game mark their cards with how many strokes they get on each hole, or tell their PP if it’s a friendly match play or if the PP is marking their card

Knowing how many strokes you get is fairly commonplace and all about course management

I get your point about expectations and psychology - it’s important, but I think you underestimate how many do this

Perhaps yeah. But remember that most people quit the game within 3 years of starting because golf is hard. What would that figure be if their expectations were properly managed? A lot less I’m positive if they had realistic expectations.

 

[Slab]

Maybe there’s a lot more players already doing this that you’d first think. I already play plenty holes with the expectation & mindset that ‘My Par’ is say 5 not 4 regardless of what’s printed on a scorecard

While it might be nice to have a fluid scorecard for the course that’s been adjusted to be specific to my handicap, I think it’ll still be quite restricted/random

As an example;
Like most I guess I assume 2 putts per hole plus how many normal shots it’ll take before I reach the green… & that’s usually ‘My Par’ (this would probably be quite close to your fluid par)

But the benefit of doing it my way over your digital fluid scorecard is that I can adjust ‘My Par’ from hole to hole and day to day depending on weather/wind etc.
So a hole that was a My Par 3 yesterday might easily be a My Par 4 today (maybe due to a 3 club wind or heavy rain etc) Also a My Par of 6 today might be a My par of 5 tomorrow with the pin in a much friendlier position
Also what if due to mega wind the fluid par going out really needs two shots added for an 18h/cap, while the homeward 9 can be left at scratch par. (or any other combination) How would fluid par cope with that?

I see several serious layers of complexity in your fluid par app that a player can/will/should do in just a second or two standing on the tee

A good idea for those that need the nudge to play their own game but I think it'll be a minority who could use it

 

[inc0gnito]

Crikey. Too much thinking.

Surely just think, "I get two shots here!"

It’s only the concept that requires thinking. The application would be soooooo simple. One click and you’re done.

 

[IanM]

It’s only the concept that requires thinking. The application would be soooooo simple. One click and you’re done.

Dr Stableford solved that problem over 100 years ago.

I would have thought bring told that your "par" on the "sooooooo simple app" is 96, would be a little embarrassing

 

[Golfnut1957]

1. Imagine having a triple bogey on stroke index 18, all of these people without cognitive behaviour would have a melt down and give up the game.

2. Rule number one in golf. Golf is hard.

 

[inc0gnito]

Maybe there’s a lot more players already doing this that you’d first think. I already play plenty holes with the expectation & mindset that ‘My Par’ is say 5 not 4 regardless of what’s printed on a scorecard

While it might be nice to have a fluid scorecard for the course that’s been adjusted to be specific to my handicap, I think it’ll still be quite restricted/random

As an example;
Like most I guess I assume 2 putts per hole plus how many normal shots it’ll take before I reach the green… & that’s usually ‘My Par’ (this would probably be quite close to your fluid par)

But the benefit of doing it my way over your digital fluid scorecard is that I can adjust ‘My Par’ from hole to hole and day to day depending on weather/wind etc.
So a hole that was a My Par 3 yesterday might easily be a My Par 4 today (maybe due to a 3 club wind or heavy rain etc) Also a My Par of 6 today might be a My par of 5 tomorrow with the pin in a much friendlier position
Also what if due to mega wind the fluid par going out really needs two shots added for an 18h/cap, while the homeward 9 can be left at scratch par. (or any other combination) How would fluid par cope with that?

I see several serious layers of complexity in your fluid par app that a player can/will/should do in just a second or two standing on the tee

A good idea for those that need the nudge to play their own game but I think it'll be a minority who could use it

I think the way you approach is fine and it works for you. And if it works for others great. But This is a very subjective approach based on daily environmental conditions. I don’t think most people could do that, especially beginners. A fluid scorecard wouldn’t take any of that into consideration. It doesn’t need to. It is just a handicap-adjusted standardised adjustment.

 

[inc0gnito]

Dr Stableford solved that problem over 100 years ago.

I would have thought bring told that your "par" on the "sooooooo simple app" is 96, would be a little embarrassing

Stableford has its drawbacks. Mainly it doesn’t give you a stroke score. So it’s apples and pears here.

96 might be embarrassing but that’s what your par is anyway when you take gross/net score into consideration. It’s no different.

 

[inc0gnito]

1. Imagine having a triple bogey on stroke index 18, all of these people without cognitive behaviour would have a melt down and give up the game.

2. Rule number one in golf. Golf is hard.

Absolutely no idea what you are trying to say.

 

[IanM]

I'm still failing to see why you need an app for something a chimp could work out in its head in under a second.

 

[Slab]

I think the way you approach is fine and it works for you. And if it works for others great. But This is a very subjective approach based on daily environmental conditions. I don’t think most people could do that, especially beginners. A fluid scorecard wouldn’t take any of that into consideration. It doesn’t need to. It is just a handicap-adjusted standardised adjustment.

But for fluid par app to be a worthy endeavor for an 18h/capper, shouldn't it adjust scratch par to show 'my par'?
(not simply adjust scratch par to exactly the same for every 18 handicapper)

Otherwise you're just spreading the handicap across holes based on SI. Which as you say is so simple that I'm not sure its needed

I agree the mindset problem your fluid par would solve is very real (even low handicappers I've met expect to get scratch par on a hole where they actually should go up one shot) So as part of course management they might benefit from someone/something nudging them on the tee to play it as a 5 etc but they're still going to walk past a sign on the tee announcing its a par 4 etc

 

[sweaty sock]

Or use stableford points...

 

[inc0gnito]

To make it even easier for you guys struggling with this. On your app you could toggle between your fluid scorecard and standard scorecard.

If I could put together a video it’d clear so much up!

 

[inc0gnito]

Or use stableford points...

See previous post.

 

[inc0gnito]

But for fluid par app to be a worthy endeavor for an 18h/capper, shouldn't it adjust scratch par to show 'my par'?
(not simply adjust scratch par to exactly the same for every 18 handicapper)

Otherwise you're just spreading the handicap across holes based on SI. Which as you say is so simple that I'm not sure its needed

I agree the mindset problem your fluid par would solve is very real (even low handicappers I've met expect to get scratch par on a hole where they actually should go up one shot) So as part of course management they might benefit from someone/something nudging them on the tee to play it as a 5 etc but they're still going to walk past a sign on the tee announcing its a par 4 etc

I was thinking more a handicap adjusted standard approach. So two different people with the same handicap would have the same adjusted scorecard. Again, it’s to change perceptions, not actual scoring.

If you wanted to make it more individual I think that could easily be done too. For example, there could be a button to adjust scores for weather conditions. But this would only be for personal preference and never for competition.

I completely get that a person may see the par score by the tee box but I’d hope that using a more fluid scorecard would overcome that. I mean the idea is to change how you perceive each hole and after using it for a while your brain/perceptions adjust and I think seeing the par by the tee would have less of an impact because you cognitively process it in a a different way.

 

[cliveb]

Stableford has its drawbacks. Mainly it doesn’t give you a stroke score.

Really?
Pretty much everyone I play with in a Stableford says eg. "5 for 2".
So that's a stroke score (5) and an indication of whether they've played to their personal par.

As I was reading your initial post I was thinking that Stableford achieves *precisely* what you want. Most golfers I know measure their performance in terms of Stableford points. For sure, maybe scratch players think differently, but I don't move in their circles.

 

[IanM]

Have you built this app yet? If not when will we see it?
How much will you charge to download it?
How many subscribers do you expect to get?

Genuine question.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

In my day a digital scorecard was called a brain.

It used to be 5's and 4's. for high handicappers ie 86 score
Bogey for mid handicap players and 4's for the scratch players. ie 77 and 72 scores
Many scorecards had bogey scores on them ie 4 and 5 for a tough par 3 and 4.
Bogey usually related to a 6 to 8 handicap.
Bogey competitions were quite common and popular. Playing matchplay against the Bogey course score.