USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
A local rule that is only allowed under exceptional ground conditions. So that's every week then, all over the world.
Abuse of the rules? It is to me.
rules you'd like to see changed
- Thread starter hovis
- Start date
A local rule that is only allowed under exceptional ground conditions. So that's every week then, all over the world.
Abuse of the rules? It is to me.
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
Maybe a bit esoteric but I came across this Decision a while ago and always thought it was a bit harsh.
27-2b/4 Provisional Ball Played from Beyond Where Original Ball Likely to Be But Not Beyond Where Original Ball Found
"Q. A player, believing his tee shot might be lost or in a road defined as out of bounds, played a provisional ball. He searched for his original ball but did not find it. He went forward and played his provisional ball. Then he went farther forward and found his original ball in bounds. The original ball must have bounced down the road and then come back into bounds, because it was found much farther from the tee than anticipated. Was the original ball still the ball in play?"
"A. No. The player played a stroke with the provisional ball from a point nearer the hole than the place where the original ball was likely to be. When he did so, the provisional ball became the ball in play and the original ball was lost (Rule 27-2b).
The place where the original ball in fact lay was irrelevant."
I'm sure for most of us we would intuitively assume that as we hadn't played the provisional from nearer the hole than where the original ball actually was, we'd be entitled to play on with the original provided it was found within 5 minutes.
Generally the Rules are based on fact or "virtual certainty" rather than liklihood so this one seems a bit harsh, how often have we been fooled when looking for a ball that carried or bounced further than we thought.
27-2b/4 Provisional Ball Played from Beyond Where Original Ball Likely to Be But Not Beyond Where Original Ball Found
"Q. A player, believing his tee shot might be lost or in a road defined as out of bounds, played a provisional ball. He searched for his original ball but did not find it. He went forward and played his provisional ball. Then he went farther forward and found his original ball in bounds. The original ball must have bounced down the road and then come back into bounds, because it was found much farther from the tee than anticipated. Was the original ball still the ball in play?"
"A. No. The player played a stroke with the provisional ball from a point nearer the hole than the place where the original ball was likely to be. When he did so, the provisional ball became the ball in play and the original ball was lost (Rule 27-2b).
The place where the original ball in fact lay was irrelevant."
I'm sure for most of us we would intuitively assume that as we hadn't played the provisional from nearer the hole than where the original ball actually was, we'd be entitled to play on with the original provided it was found within 5 minutes.
Generally the Rules are based on fact or "virtual certainty" rather than liklihood so this one seems a bit harsh, how often have we been fooled when looking for a ball that carried or bounced further than we thought.
G
guest100718
Guest
Its a rule that has such little bearing on them anyway as to not really make much of a difference. I had a few buried balls over the winter, ide love our club to introduce it!
jp5
Q-School Graduate
It sounds in the question as the provisional was placed from a point further from the hole than where the original ball was though?
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
The provisional was played from nearer the hole than where the original was likely to be not nearer than where it actually was, which is the point of the Decision and my reservations.
If the players had known that it had hit the road then the interpretation of where the ball was likely to be might have been different.
That's why I feel relying on liklihood, which depends on subjective judgement and possibly lack of all the relevant facts, by the players, seems odd, when in fact the ball was further on.
Fader
Tour Winner
I always thought clubs could introduce a local rule on plugged lies in the rough! I know our course allows local rule of if plugged in rough, you cannot take a drop but you can roll the ball out of its plug marking.
Divot rule is fine as it is with me to be honest as its just to ambigious as to what constitues a divot, and even if there were guidlines on size etc people would be arguing over it.
Rule I'd like to see change is OOB rules, why does it need to be stroke and distance why not a 1 shot penalty and drop at the point the ball crossed the boundary line!
Divot rule is fine as it is with me to be honest as its just to ambigious as to what constitues a divot, and even if there were guidlines on size etc people would be arguing over it.
Rule I'd like to see change is OOB rules, why does it need to be stroke and distance why not a 1 shot penalty and drop at the point the ball crossed the boundary line!
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
there needs to be a rule, and you should consider the alternative ....... that the alternative makes even less sense (it would actually be nonsense!) is why you have this ruling.
you also need to consider that a player ceasing to seach for his OB where they think it is, and playing his PB from a point beyond this, has either done it because his 5 mins is up or because he's accepted it's lost and (relatively) happy to play his PB (if he's not hapy he will use his 5 min!)
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
you create a huge huge issue with the relationship between lost, lost OOB and OOB. In many instances it's OOB because you can't go there, so you wouldn't be able to prove OOB over lost etc etc etc
T
thecraw
Guest
duncan mackie
Money List Winner
Your too sensible Duncan. Stop raining on everyone's parade!
better head off to a match v Lamberhurst then...although the weather doesn't look overly inviting it's been worse!
Simbo
Tour Rookie
Playing out a divot is Definately a pain but they shouldn't change the rules, when does a divot become a divot, everyone's interpretation would be different and the rule would be abused!!
londonlewis
Tour Rookie
Maybe the issue is divots not being replaced...
On a geeky note - someone tweeted the other day that the divot is the piece of turf, divot hole is the correct terminology *kill me now*
Wildrover
Tour Rookie
I'd change the rule that says Tiger can do whatever the hell he likes!!
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
there needs to be a rule, and you should consider the alternative ....... that the alternative makes even less sense (it would actually be nonsense!) is why you have this ruling.
you also need to consider that a player ceasing to seach for his OB where they think it is, and playing his PB from a point beyond this, has either done it because his 5 mins is up or because he's accepted it's lost and (relatively) happy to play his PB (if he's not hapy he will use his 5 min!)
I would envisage an addition or note to 27-2c along the following lines.
"Where a player makes a stroke at a provisional ball from a place nearer the hole than where the original ball was believed, or was likely, to be, and the original ball is subsequently found within 5 minutes of when the player began to search for it, the player must abandon the provisional ball and continue playing with the original ball."
or something like that.
Do you think that would not be workable?
To my mind it would just be an extension or clarification of the principle in 27-2c, that if the original ball is neither lost nor out of bounds, the player must abandon the provisional ball and continue playing with the original ball.
As you say in the vast majority of cases the provisional isn't played until the 5 mins are up but there are situations (e.g ball bouncing off a tree or, as in the Decision, down a road) when after a quick look the player plays on with the provisional only to spot the original ball in an unexpected position.
The fact that the original ball was actually found within 5 mins should give the player the right to play on with it notwithstanding issues about where it was "likely" to be.
wrighty1874
Journeyman Pro
I'd introduce the rule whereby,like tennis a two cracks at the tee shot.
