Rules question

Sneds

Sneds

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Ok, so my friend who I played with today had a wedge onto the green which he shanked to the right onto a path. It was visable and he would have had to lob it over a tree to get to the green.

He took another ball, out of frustration more than anything else and stuck it within 3ft. He then said that he could claim the initial shank unplayable and use his second for a one shot penalty? (Basically a 3ft for par)

My understanding of that rule is that he can claim the ball unplayable, but he would have to play his original ball from the original spot again or at any point along the line that the ball took when hit off to the right, no nearer the hole?

I wasn't that bothered, it was just a bounce game and I won anyway. But was just wondering about the ruling. The ball probably wouldn't have counted for anything if he'd just shanked it again.

Out of curiosity, if he'd stated that he was taking a penalty drop and he was playing a second ball and claiming the first one unplayable, would it have been fine?

Cheers x
 
Well, without looking at the rule book, I can tell you that declaration of ball 'unplayable' can be made anywhere, but the declaration must be made before someone has tried to play it. You cant play a shot, hit a duffer, play another,then claim the original unplayable as that is plain cheating.
Having said this I am not entirely sure your explanation is clear.

Did he shank, then play another from that spot ,then declare the first unplayable? Did he shank, then deem it unplayable, then play another from another spot?.....see what Im getting at?
 
If the original ball is not lost, then he has to play it. Either by penalty, or from where it lies (local rule - free drop from path?). Can't play another one until the first is lost.
 
Sorry for my unclear post.

He shanked. Then just hit another ball as it was a bounce game. Then when his second ball was close to the pin, he deemed his first unplayable and gave himself a one shot penalty.

I think I may have confused things by asking if he had been in the right if he'd called the penalty upon himself before taking his second shot from the same point.
 
Sneds,

Very briefly

1) You can declare your ball unplayable absolutely anywhere on the golf course but would certainly have to do that before doing anything else

2) Once you've declared it unplayable you have three options, all under penalty
a) Play again from the spot where you last played
b) Take a drop within two club lengths
c) Drop as far back as you like on a line keeping the point where the ball is directly between you and the flag

There is no option to drop anywhere on the line of the ball's path between where you hit it from and where it ends up.

Hope this helps
 
I actually think the second ball comes straight into play with stroke and distance penalty and the first ball is deemed lost. Theoretically he could have played a second ball as a provisional (provided he declared it) before he went over to 'find' his original, but as he didn't say it was a provisional it becomes live the moment he hits it. Probably good he didn't shank that too.

I stand to be corrected though.

Sometimes the rules work in the persons favour and sometimes not. If he'd missed the green with the second then he'd have stuffed himself right up as you start insisting that he continue to play that ball. All in my opinion though.... rules never were a strong point :D

Not sure how it would be for par though? was it a par 5?
1,Tee shot 2,shank 3,drop 4,on the green 5,make the putt.
 
I agree with JustOneUK in that he played the 2nd ball without declaring it a provisional, so, it would become the ball in play.

Bit of a hot head is he ? he needs to calm down after a bad shot and think what he needs to do next. ;)
 
justoneuk and dcb you are wrong

after he played his first ball you could still see it so you could not declare it lost, also he would have been unable to play a new ball from the point he played the shank he would have to retrive the initial ball to declare it unplayable.

He should have been Dq'd for refuseing to play to the rules
 
justoneuk and dcb you are wrong
Click to expand...
freddielong you are wrong. :p

It doesn't matter a jot if you can still see the original ball. If the player decides to drop another one on the same spot as the original, there's nothing to stop him. That ball is now officially the ball in play as it was not declared as a provisional. (You can't declare a provisional if you can still see the original ball anyway because there has to be a reasonable chance that the original is lost).

Also, you can't simply declare a ball lost verbally but if you play a second without declaring it a provisional, the original is effectively 'lost' as it is no longer in play.
 
I don't agree I think by playing a new ball, whilst the other ball is visable and clearly not lost, it should be treated as playing the wrong ball, therefore receiving a 2 shot pen plus it must be put right or dq'd.
 
Freddielong,

Look at the definition of Wrong Ball.

What the player did here was abandon his shanked ball. He threw down another ball which became "the ball in play". penalty is stroke & distance, not a penalty as for a "Wrong Ball"
 
Sorry I do not agree

You are not able to just throw down another ball and you are not able to declare a ball lost that clearly isn't the ball he could see was clearly his ball in play.

A wrong ball is any other than the players "ball in play" first definition
 
Rule 15-1 A played must hole out with the ball played from the teeing ground, unless the ball is lost, or out of bounds, or the player substitutes another ball, whether or not substitution is permitted (see 15-2). If a player plays a wrong ball, see 15.3.

Rule 15.2 A player may substitute a ball when proceeding under a rule that permits the player to play, drop, or place another ball in completing the play of the hole. The substituted ball becomes the ball in play.
If a player substitutes a ball when not permitted to do so under the rules, that substituted ball is not a wrong ball; it becomes the ball in play. If the mistake is not corrected as provided in rule 20-6, and the player makes a stroke at the wrongly substituted ball, he loses the hole in match play, or incurs a penalty of 2 strokes in stroke play under the applicable rule, and in stroke play, must play out the hole with the substituted ball.

Exception: If a player incurs a penalty for making a stoke from a wrong place, there is ano additional penaly for substituting a ball when not permitted.


Therefore, under the exception, once he had taken a penalty, he can play a new ball.
 
Can he not just declare it unplayable without going over to it and picking it up?
Click to expand...

No, you need to identify the ball to declare it unplayable. That is why the pro sometimes has to climb the tree.

Any player can declare a ball still in play and not in a hazard unplayable. Then the process that follows is the same, whatever the reason you choose to declare it unplayable - replay stroke and distance, 2 club length drop under penalty or keep point between you and the hole and go back as far as you like under penalty. That can be for whatever reason you like. You can also declare a ball lost, but if your opponent finds it before you put another ball in play, the original ball is still in play and you must play it. You do not have to allow the 5 minutes to expire so your opponent can look for it.
 
I guess this is a situation that is not covered because it is not something any sane person would do - if you have a ball in play why take a 2 shot pen and hit another and risk hitting another bad one when you can take a 1 shot pen (unplayable) and hit the same ball again from the initial spot.
 
So what's the difference between this scenario and a player carving a tee shot into trouble then dropping another on the tee and putting that one into play, it's not a provisional because he didn't declare it a provisional ?
 
It would be your 4th from the tee not your 3rd

correct scenario - tee shot into trees lost ball shot plus distance 3 from tee

incorrect - shot to trees, incorrect substituted ball 2 shot pen, next shot 4th
 
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