Rules query

[Driverman]

Whilst playing today, I was stood on the tee and having my usual 2 practise swings when on the second one, I must have been too close to the ball and clipped it 90° off to the right about 20 yards. What is the correct ruling on this as I was not making a deliberate attempt to play the ball? Would the ruling differ if my ball wasn't on the teeing ground?

Thanks

 

[pingpal]

This counts as a shot on the tee, fairway or anywhere else within the bounds of the course.
Only exception is when the ball falls off the tee whilst addressing it or if you touch the ball at address as long as it rolls back to it's original position, if it moves out of it's original position it counts as a shot.

 

[John_Findlay]

Sorry, Pingpal. I think you're wrong. It doesn't count as a shot at all as he hadn't addressed the ball with the intention of hitting it, so the ball wasn't "in play". It would be different if he had addressed it. The rule says:-

If a ball, when not in play, falls off a tee or is knocked off a tee by the player in addressing it, it may be re-teed without penalty. However, if a stroke is made at the ball in these circumstances, whether the ball is moving or not, the stroke counts but there is no penalty.

 

[rgs]

This is like Tigers "miss/air shot" at this years masters-on the 13th tee as he swung down to hit the ball hew was disturbed by a bird flying from a tree just behind him-he managed an "air shot" but was not penalised as it was deemed that he was not intending to play a shot.

Great reflexes to miss a ball at his swing speed.

 

[John_Findlay]

Quite right, rgs. It's part of the same rule. The ball's not in play between holing out at the previous hole and making a stroke on the next tee. A "stroke" is the forward movement of the club made with the intention of striking at and moving the ball, but if a player checks his downswing voluntarily before the clubhead reaches the ball he has not made a stroke.

I double checked Driverman's predicament and there's a specific decision mentioned on the R & A website ;-Decision 18-2a/19

"Ball Moved Accidentally by Practice Swing Prior to Tee Shot

Before playing from the teeing ground, a player took a practice swing, in the course of which he accidentally struck and moved the teed ball with his club. Did the player play a stroke or incur a penalty?

The player did not make a stroke – see Definition of “Stroke”. Since the ball was not in play – see Definition of “Ball in Play” – he incurred no penalty under Rule 18-2a. The player must put a ball into play from the teeing ground. "

So, Driverman, no penalty. Just re-tee the ball.

To answer your whole question- yes, it's different when the ball is in play, i.e. on the fairway, green etc. Rule 18-2 says:-

When a player's ball is in play, if the player moves it or causes it to move the player incurs a penalty of one stroke. If the ball is moved, it must be replaced unless the movement of the ball occurs after the player has begun the stroke or the backward movement of the club for the stroke and the stroke is made.

So basically, if you accidentally hit it while practicing on the fairway then you replace the ball and incurr a penalty stoke. I know, I've done it in a Medal ! Doh!

Cutting and pasting. I love it.

 

[RGuk]

Hey, I had a tough one the other day. I teed it up, took my practice swing, addressed the ball, took the backswing, and as I came down the tee peg did a leaning tower of Pisa. I tried to stop the swing, but to no avail...the ball (which was falling off) came off the toe and came to rest on the 16th green!
I replayed the shot....but it was only a fun game.
I've also hit my ball (chip warm up) by accident, silly, and I learnt my lesson.

Dave

 

[John_Findlay]

Tough ones, Dave.

I've had a few times at my club on windy days where I've addressed my putt and the ball has moved in the wind after the backswing but before I struck the ball. Grrrrrrrr. Penalty shot.

I love wind!?

 

[viscount17]

That sounds harsh J_F, can't you claim outside influence/AoG and replace it?

 

[clubchamp07]

Sorry guys once we have addressed the ball (unless on tee) it becomes a shot. Harsh I know but then life is. I always make sure the ball has settled before I go anywhere near it on the green even with no wind blowing. I find it best to replace the ball and walk to the hole and by the time u return to ur ball if it hasn't moved by now it's hardly likely to, unless some of you aply pressure to the green behind the ball as I have seen some people to.

 

[John_Findlay]

Harsh, Viscount, but I'm afraid that wind is neither an outside influence nor an Act of God according to the R & A. I'm afraid that 30 mph winds are gonna move the ball on our slopey greens whether they have settled or not. It's just a rub of the green.

I usually don't ground my putter behind the ball on putts, which means that, according to the rules, I haven't addressed the ball. But I had on this occasion because the wind was blowing my putter-head all over the shop! Ye canny win!

 

[pingpal]

Sorry, Pingpal. I think you're wrong. It doesn't count as a shot at all as he hadn't addressed the ball with the intention of hitting it, so the ball wasn't "in play".

I guess technically you're correct JF but I think in an actual match you'd find it pretty difficult to explain to an opponent that you were taking a practice swing. If you're so close as to hit the ball 'accidentally' it's gonna be pretty hard to make someone believe it wasn't an attempt at a shot especially if like some players you're practice swing is a full effort unlike my practice swing which is just a light swish standing behind the ball to loosen up.
I suppose the lesson is to stand well back from the ball when taking a practice swing!

 

[John_Findlay]

Agreed, pingpal. But I was basing my answer on Driverman's intention...and if he usually had 2 practice swings it would be easy to prove to his playing partner that he had no intention of hitting the ball on the second swing.

 

[Driverman]

Thanks very much guys. I've learnt my lesson and will be standing just a little bit further from the ball next time!

 

[muttleee]

Davis Love once accidentally hit his ball while making a practice putting stroke on the 17th at Sawgrass, I think it was. He didn't replace it either and it cost him something like $70,000 in lost prize money because he was disqualified for signing for an incorrect score. As he said at the time, he had the whole world to practise in but still managed to hit the ball unintentionally.

 

[Slaighty]

Have picked up on something John Findlay said which is quite significant. To technically address the ball anywhere on the course you ground the club behind the ball. If you "hover" the club (like I do, but not for this reason) you never address the ball so if it did move you shouldn't be penalised. Can imagine great arguments though....how do you prove you didn't touch a blade of grass?

 

[John_Findlay]

....how do you prove you didn't touch a blade of grass?

You don't need to......you only need to tell your playing partner you didn't..... and he should believe you ! It's up to him to prove you did if there's any dispute.

That's the beauty of the game. The players have integrity... so you believe them unless you have incontrovertible proof that they are wrong or are lying.

 

[John_Findlay]

Just out of interest, guys....how many of us refresh our knowledge of the rules of the game on a regular basis?

The R & A have an online interactive quiz you can take. Here's the link;-

http://www.randa.org/index.cfm?action=rules.rulessub.quiz.home&cfid=7867732&cftoken=53757408

You can answer either 10 or 15 questions on easy, moderate or difficult rules. It's quite enlightening. I'm willing to bet that none of us can answer all 15 correctly on the moderate or difficult setting off the top of our heads.

Try it and let me know how you got on. Which rules did you get wrong?

 

[Slaighty]

8 out of 10 on moderate......great link mate

 

[John_Findlay]

Not at all bad, Slaighty. Where did you go wrong?

I'll set up a new post and see how well we know what we should!