Rule 14 2 e

[D-S]

If you drop a ball, if it was trapped under a rake, on the back down slope of a bunker and it won’t come to rest, then you can’t place it as it won’t come to rest anywhere that isn’t closer to the hole (it’s on a slope), my understanding is that it must be dropped outside the bunker with I assume a 2 shot penalty. Is this right?

 

[Neilds]

Surely if you are in a bunker, a little downward pressure will mean the ball stays where it is placed?

 

[wjemather]

If you drop a ball, if it was trapped under a rake, on the back down slope of a bunker and it won’t come to rest, then you can’t place it as it won’t come to rest anywhere that isn’t closer to the hole (it’s on a slope), my understanding is that it must be dropped outside the bunker with I assume a 2 shot penalty. Is this right?

Covered in clarification 14.2e/1: https://www.randa.org/rog/clarifications/rule-14#14_2e_1

"When following Rule 14.2e, there is a possibility that the only spot in the same area of the course where the ball will stay at rest when placed is nearer the hole. In such circumstances, the player must take penalty relief under an allowed Rule.

The player is not allowed to push the ball into the ground to ensure it stays on a spot (see Clarification 14.2c/3).

For example, a player's ball comes to rest on the downslope of a bunker against a rake and, in removing the rake, the ball moves. The player attempts to replace the ball as required, but it does not stay. They then follow the procedure of Rule 14.2e with no success and find that there are no other spots to try in that bunker that are not nearer the hole.

In this case, the player must take unplayable ball relief either by using stroke and distance for one penalty stroke (Rule 19.2a) or back-on-the-line relief outside the bunker for two penalty strokes (Rule 19.3b)."

 

[wjemather]

Surely if you are in a bunker, a little downward pressure will mean the ball stays where it is placed?

Also covered in the clarifications: https://www.randa.org/en/rog/clarifications/rule-14#14_2c_3 "Ball Must Not Be Pushed into Ground When Replacing It"

 

[Neilds]

Surely if you are in a bunker, a little downward pressure will mean the ball stays where it is placed?

Forget this advice, @wjemather has proved me wrong

 

[Colin L]

Surely if you are in a bunker, a little downward pressure will mean the ball stays where it is placed?

Indeed it will, but ................ as already said.

 

[2blue]

Dame people who leave racks in crap places!!

 

[Steven Rules]

If you drop a ball, if it was trapped under a rake,

Just to be clear. If a player’s ball moves while they are removing a movable obstruction, the ball must be replaced on its original spot, not dropped. Rule 15.2a(1).

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Just to be clear. If a player’s ball moves while they are removing a movable obstruction, the ball must be replaced on its original spot, not dropped. Rule 15.2a(1).

As you are replacing a ball must you mark the position of the ball if that is known before removing the obstruction. The rule doesn’t say you must, or even should, but other situations when replacing a ball you must mark its position before lifting it. I know you are not lifting the ball in the scenario, but you may have to replace it.

 

[rulie]

As you are replacing a ball must you mark the position of the ball if that is known before removing the obstruction. The rule doesn’t say you must, or even should, but other situations when replacing a ball you must mark its position before lifting it. I know you are not lifting the ball in the scenario, but you may have to replace it.

No, it is not necessary to mark the ball's position before moving the movable obstruction. "Replace" is a defined term in the Rules of golf - tells you how to do the "replacing".

 

[KenL]

Covered in clarification 14.2e/1: https://www.randa.org/rog/clarifications/rule-14#14_2e_1

"When following Rule 14.2e, there is a possibility that the only spot in the same area of the course where the ball will stay at rest when placed is nearer the hole. In such circumstances, the player must take penalty relief under an allowed Rule.

The player is not allowed to push the ball into the ground to ensure it stays on a spot (see Clarification 14.2c/3).

For example, a player's ball comes to rest on the downslope of a bunker against a rake and, in removing the rake, the ball moves. The player attempts to replace the ball as required, but it does not stay. They then follow the procedure of Rule 14.2e with no success and find that there are no other spots to try in that bunker that are not nearer the hole.

In this case, the player must take unplayable ball relief either by using stroke and distance for one penalty stroke (Rule 19.2a) or back-on-the-line relief outside the bunker for two penalty strokes (Rule 19.3b)."

Well there is an another classic ridiculous rule in golf.
Moving, say a few cm does not offer much advantage but it could cost you a couple of strokes.

 

[rulefan]

Well there is an another classic ridiculous rule in golf.
Moving, say a few cm does not offer much advantage but it could cost you a couple of strokes.

It could offer a significant advantage if your ball had been in a divot hole or behind a large leaf originally.

 

[KenL]

It could offer a significant advantage if your ball had been in a divot hole or behind a large leaf originally.

But, it probably wouldn’t be though would it?

 

[jim8flog]

Dame people who leave racks in crap places!!

There is nothing like a dame


This is where I like the advice given years ago by the R&A (now removed sadly).

Something like
'the rake should be placed outside of the bunker in such a position that it will not stop a ball from going in to the bunker'.

 

[IanM]

Newport has really clear instructions similar to the above...

...BUT, that seem far beyond the wit of most members to follow.

 

[rulie]

There is nothing like a dame


This is where I like the advice given years ago by the R&A (now removed sadly).

Something like
'the rake should be placed outside of the bunker in such a position that it will not stop a ball from going in to the bunker'.

Not removed at all, still in the Official Guide to the Rules of Golf, in Committee Procedures. It says, "after considering all these aspects, and while recognizing that the positioning of rakes is at the Committee's discretion, it is recommended that rakes should be left outside bunkers in areas where they are least likely to affect the movement of the ball."

 

[Swango1980]

There is nothing like a dame


This is where I like the advice given years ago by the R&A (now removed sadly).

Something like
'the rake should be placed outside of the bunker in such a position that it will not stop a ball from going in to the bunker'.

I get that from a golfing perspective. From a course management perspective, is it a pain in the backside for green staff cutting the grass around bunkers? Any green keepers here?

 

[rulie]

I get that from a golfing perspective. From a course management perspective, is it a pain in the backside for green staff cutting the grass around bunkers? Any green keepers here?

Isn't it supposed to be from a "golfing perspective"? That's what the golf course is for. I understand rakes in bunkers might be easier for some of the maintenance workers, but likely not for some others (our course uses machines to maintain the bunkers and rakes in the bunkers are a pain for them). Somebody is going to have to get on and off their machines in order to do their jobs properly and make the course "ready for play" by the golfers.

 

[Swango1980]

Isn't it supposed to be from a "golfing perspective"? That's what the golf course is for. I understand rakes in bunkers might be easier for some of the maintenance workers, but likely not for some others (our course uses machines to maintain the bunkers and rakes in the bunkers are a pain for them). Somebody is going to have to get on and off their machines in order to do their jobs properly and make the course "ready for play" by the golfers.

It depends on the level of inconvenience.

Rakes are in the bunkers more than 95% of the time whenever I am in one. In the 20 years of playing, in probably over 2,500 rounds of golf, I don't think I have once ever had a situation where I've not been able to drop the ball in the bunker without it rolling closer to hole. I would say I've only once or twice ever had a situation where the ball has ended up under a rake, and in a really horrible spot meaning I've to hit it out backwards.

So, for the sake of ensuring my ball doesn't end up in a tricky position in a bunker because it gets trapped under a rake (possible that 0.1% chance), I'm actually content that rakes are left in bunkers IF it makes the daily life of green keepers a lot easier, and just take my chances. Hence why I asked the question

 

[Backache]

Maybe I've been unlucky I've ended up under rakes in difficult places a couple of times in the last year.
I have to confess I was unaware of not being able to press it down and don't know if I could have placed without moving.
I do like those courses that have racks for rakes.