Rollups/Swindles

[Orikoru]

Where have you made up that anyone is "prevented"?

Roll ups are real life humans, not pretend, woke, forum creations. If groups of regular golfers who are the life blood of a club wish to set a handicap limit so they enjoy their golf and aren't lumbered with some newbie who can't play the game, they have every right to do so.

Practice, get to a standard, join in. Simple.

"Daft" says the person who won't play because he can't work out how to pay £2

They're prevented if their handicap isn't low enough. How will they get their handicap down if they've no one to play with?

A decent compromise perhaps would be allowing them to play in the roll-up but not compete for the prizes until their handicap meets the criteria. But I was responding to suggestions earlier in the thread that in some cases you can't even join the roll-up full stop if you're above the handicap limit.

 

[Orikoru]

Just because there is a maximum handicap, why do you think new members, or higher handicappers, are prevented from entering? Surely they can play, but just off the agreed max handicap, just like lots of other competitions, leagues etc.

The "welcoming" element goes much further than the handicap calculation surely?

I would hope that's the case but I refer you to this:

Very little! There is a Monday/Wed rollup played in teams that is £2 in but has a handicap limit of 18. That's not a max playing hcp, it's a max JOINING hcp which is bonkers as most of the old guys playing in it haven't played to 18 for years!

 

[Crow]

Just because there is a maximum handicap, why do you think new members, or higher handicappers, are prevented from entering? Surely they can play, but just off the agreed max handicap, just like lots of other competitions, leagues etc.

The "welcoming" element goes much further than the handicap calculation surely?

Yes, the 28 handicapper should rejoice in being allowed to top up the pot for the lower handicappers.

 

[Dando]

we had some iffy handicaps in our swindle so we ran them 4 on consecutive sundays in Jan were everyone played off scratch so they could a handicap reset.

 

[Patster1969]

We have 17 different roll ups Monday to Saturday...
If you don't want to play in one it can be quite difficult working out when it's a good time to start as we don't do booking systems except Sunday am and Tuesday am...

My club is similar - Saturdays are a bit of a bun fight with no tee booking at all and about 5 different roll-ups between 8am & 1pm. There are plenty of roll-ups on the other days as well

 

[rulie]

For a foreigner, could someone please provide a layman's definition of roll-ups and swindles?

 

[timd77]

We have a few unofficial/member run ones. I only play in the Sunday one.

It’s great, I really enjoy it. Said on here before, the lad I joined with didn’t renew after the first year so I was a bit billy no mates, someone said to stick my name in on the Sunday or just turn up around 9.30, never looked back since.

Full handicap, £2 in all goes to the winner, £1 for every 2. Met some really good people, all very welcoming, it’s a good mix of high, mid and low handicappers, no snobbery at all.

 

[AAC]

We have quite a few roll up swindles, I know of at least 4 on a weekend. On a Sunday morning (out of the competition season) we also play a blind pairs, £2 in the pot any handicap welcome, if your h/c is iffy the gathering will let you know when your name is called out

 

[jim8flog]

All of our roll ups /swindles are organised by the members and not the club.

We do have club comps which are optional to enter.

I play in 2

One of which is £2. £1 goes in the kitty on the day and the other goes in to funds for an awayday. We play 95% with 1st and 2nd , with 3rd if there are more 12 in it.

The other one is £5 you must put in a General Play card, full handicap , drink from the kitty and one player wins what is left there are occasions when there is nearly nothing left in the kitty.

 

[jim8flog]

For a foreigner, could someone please provide a layman's definition of roll-ups and swindles?

Some call them swindles, others roll ups but they are basically the same thing

Member organised - it is where a group of players, all known to each other meet up at a prearranged time(s) and play together for money. Where I play you have to prebook tee times all the time but each swindle knows roughly the times the swindle runs from and to. Each group sets it's own rules

With a club run one there is normally a set time period (this will normally be called a roll up, as in roll up sign in and play). Just turn up and book on the day to play (no prebooking).

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Our Saturday roll up I run has a rule that new members must play off 1 less than any official handicap they have or we allocated 24 (unless they volunteer a lower figure based on previous ability). The rule also says a newbie cannot win the pot first time out. It allows us to monitor new players while welcoming them into the group. The rules are sent to any prospective new members so they are aware of the set up before play.

As someone mentioned the golf is somewhat secondary to the apres golf and the banter after. Players will moan that they must have had their three week cut by now until they are shown the dates. At the moment we have one guy 4 off his playing handicap (so off 7). We are picking up regular new members and have a reputation for being competitive but fun. We have our own order of merit (best 10 scores over the season) with a shield to the winner. As I've also said we also have an inter roll-up match against another big and booming group which has caused some real fun in the weeks up to last Saturdays match. The banter yesterday was lively both ways.

Roll ups need to be welcoming to all. People are paying a lot of cash to be a member and need to be integrated into the club. We have a buddy scheme (which got the final of the EGU awards several years ago) and roll up groups are featured heavily in that. Although we have the rules around new members, these are a one off for the first week and solely to protect the regular players. Twice we have had people rock up, scoop the pot and never be seen in the group again

 

[RichA]

None at our place. There is a group who block half a dozen tee times every Sunday, who I believe play some kind of swindle, but it's not an arrangement that seems to invite fresh blood to join.

 

[Bratty]

Think we've three or four on Saturdays and Sundays. Around 46 players in total each day.
They are supposed to open to all, but it usually involves a few WhatsApp groups (cliques? ) and spaces get filled pretty quickly.
New members have been invited to join them and often play off a reduced handicap or can't win for three times, so only pay for the nearest the pin pots.
One is a tenner, winner takes all, which is rubbish.
The two I play in are Saturday £6 and Sunday £7 and you start off half your club handicap. New joiners only eligible for NPs with the Saturday swindle doing 1 NP and Sunday 2 NPs.
The money is shared out with 1 bit for front nine, 1 bit for back nine, 2 bits for overall and 1 bit for NP. They also play a £1/£1/£1 matchplay in the tee times.
It means there's always something to play for, but you do have to buy the drinks if you win. Sadly, if all you win is overall, you can be out of pocket!
Last year, on a Saturday I won front with 20, back with 20, overall with 40 (off 7, but club handicap was 10) and the NP. £55 or so and only three people drinking! I discovered that they cut you for scoring 20 points, 40 points and winning, so I now play off 3 in the swindle! Almost won it at the weekend with 32 points off 3 (club handicap now 9), but I would have been out of pocket!

 

[Mandofred]

Think we've three or four on Saturdays and Sundays. Around 46 players in total each day.
They are supposed to open to all, but it usually involves a few WhatsApp groups (cliques? ) and spaces get filled pretty quickly.
New members have been invited to join them and often play off a reduced handicap or can't win for three times, so only pay for the nearest the pin pots.
One is a tenner, winner takes all, which is rubbish.
The two I play in are Saturday £6 and Sunday £7 and you start off half your club handicap. New joiners only eligible for NPs with the Saturday swindle doing 1 NP and Sunday 2 NPs.
The money is shared out with 1 bit for front nine, 1 bit for back nine, 2 bits for overall and 1 bit for NP. They also play a £1/£1/£1 matchplay in the tee times.
It means there's always something to play for, but you do have to buy the drinks if you win. Sadly, if all you win is overall, you can be out of pocket!
Last year, on a Saturday I won front with 20, back with 20, overall with 40 (off 7, but club handicap was 10) and the NP. £55 or so and only three people drinking! I discovered that they cut you for scoring 20 points, 40 points and winning, so I now play off 3 in the swindle! Almost won it at the weekend with 32 points off 3 (club handicap now 9), but I would have been out of pocket!

Woosh, £6-7 is more than I want to play for. £3 is enough..... and really, I prefer to play for nothing...but that isn't how things are run so I deal with it.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Think we've three or four on Saturdays and Sundays. Around 46 players in total each day.
They are supposed to open to all, but it usually involves a few WhatsApp groups (cliques? ) and spaces get filled pretty quickly.
New members have been invited to join them and often play off a reduced handicap or can't win for three times, so only pay for the nearest the pin pots.
One is a tenner, winner takes all, which is rubbish.
The two I play in are Saturday £6 and Sunday £7 and you start off half your club handicap. New joiners only eligible for NPs with the Saturday swindle doing 1 NP and Sunday 2 NPs.
The money is shared out with 1 bit for front nine, 1 bit for back nine, 2 bits for overall and 1 bit for NP. They also play a £1/£1/£1 matchplay in the tee times.
It means there's always something to play for, but you do have to buy the drinks if you win. Sadly, if all you win is overall, you can be out of pocket!
Last year, on a Saturday I won front with 20, back with 20, overall with 40 (off 7, but club handicap was 10) and the NP. £55 or so and only three people drinking! I discovered that they cut you for scoring 20 points, 40 points and winning, so I now play off 3 in the swindle! Almost won it at the weekend with 32 points off 3 (club handicap now 9), but I would have been out of pocket!

Wow. £6 or £7 and out of pocket. We put prices up to a £5 and our winners always get something to take home. We do get a 15% members discount on our drinks and food with our bar card which helps but your roll up seems steep. I guess if you don't mind putting the cash in and its a laugh then you don't see it as a lot of cash.

 

[Deleted member 35577]

For a foreigner, could someone please provide a layman's definition of roll-ups and swindles?

A bunch of people that play together, groups randomly drawn each time so you play with different folks. Usually an 'entry fee' towards a prize fund.

 

[Bratty]

Wow. £6 or £7 and out of pocket. We put prices up to a £5 and our winners always get something to take home. We do get a 15% members discount on our drinks and food with our bar card which helps but your roll up seems steep. I guess if you don't mind putting the cash in and its a laugh then you don't see it as a lot of cash.

I'm fine with it. If there's 12 of us, then there's £72 in the pot. That means £18 for front 9, £18 for back, £18 for NP and £36 for overall. We get 15% discount and not everyone gets an alcoholic drink either so usually okay.
I have a chance of winning any or all of it, so I'm okay with £7 - it focuses the mind a bit!

 

[Slab]

Our Saturday roll up I run has a rule that new members must play off 1 less than any official handicap they have or we allocated 24 (unless they volunteer a lower figure based on previous ability). The rule also says a newbie cannot win the pot first time out. It allows us to monitor new players while welcoming them into the group. The rules are sent to any prospective new members so they are aware of the set up before play.

As someone mentioned the golf is somewhat secondary to the apres golf and the banter after. Players will moan that they must have had their three week cut by now until they are shown the dates. At the moment we have one guy 4 off his playing handicap (so off 7). We are picking up regular new members and have a reputation for being competitive but fun. We have our own order of merit (best 10 scores over the season) with a shield to the winner. As I've also said we also have an inter roll-up match against another big and booming group which has caused some real fun in the weeks up to last Saturdays match. The banter yesterday was lively both ways.

Roll ups need to be welcoming to all. People are paying a lot of cash to be a member and need to be integrated into the club. We have a buddy scheme (which got the final of the EGU awards several years ago) and roll up groups are featured heavily in that. Although we have the rules around new members, these are a one off for the first week and solely to protect the regular players. Twice we have had people rock up, scoop the pot and never be seen in the group again

If a new player can't win the pot why do they also need to play off 1 under their official handicap?

 

[Slab]

There's a couple of roll ups but since they're midweek I rarely get to play (there may be others I'm not aware of) Both seem well supported and accept new players. Players are pretty transient with a core of ever-present guys plus those travelling on/off the island

I think entry is same for both at £10 with winner/s getting the pot and covering the post round bar bill for the group. Numbers can be down at 10 or up to 40 players

 

[HomerJSimpson]

If a new player can't win the pot why do they also need to play off 1 under their official handicap?

Simply because we've had instances of players coming into the club, including some with handicaps that have lapsed for competitions due to lack of cards submitted, taking the money. As they aren't playing comps, the group thought they may be at an advantage as the handicap may not be reflecting their current level. Like all of the rules they are discussed and agreed by the group and voted on