Roll Back Discussion

[D-S]

you mean aside from the cost of fertilisers, water etc to make the grass grow longer and thick enough to narrow the fairways the amount this would take?

Actually growing more rough is cheaper for a course, mowing and maintenance of rough is considerably less than fairway and you can make an area of fairway into rough by simply not mowing it in the Spring.

 

[wjemather]

So above the British Masters and PGA at Wentworth which are still hosted at courses within the UK which other elite comps where you talking about when talking about the likes of Hunstanton and Ganton etc ?

Golfers hitting it further aren’t the reason why Tour events aren’t being hosted at multiple courses around the UK and infrastructure and cost is a far bigger reason than someone hitting it 20 yards further than they did 40 years ago


And a lot of those courses you mention still host the high level elite Amatuer competitions because the demand for the infrastructure and cost is far less

You are now making entirely different points.

You initially asserted (post #186) that "...historic courses within the UK don’t host pro events and 99% of them haven’t ever really hosted Pro events" - I have given you several examples that demonstrate that they regularly hosted events in the past.

And to repeat... for many years now, 7000 yards has been the minimum for consideration as a host for many elite professional, amateur and open events. Many of these historic courses fall well below that, so regardless of infrastructure, financial backing, etc. they will not be considered as hosts without extending the course. Burnham is a recent example of a course being extended for this very reason.

 

[Bdill93]

That's a par 4 off our blue tees, and the big hitters do use less than 8 for one of them

Sorry I did mean par 4

 

[Junior]

Just my opinion but i dont think theres a need foe this.

Why dont they grow the rough in for the pros and make accuracy a premium, and then make the max loft on a wedge 56 degrees to encourage creativity and feel.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I agree with most of that, but the modern obsession with distance has affected golf for all.
The most significant factor for me being that all balls are now geared to low spin on long shots to optimise distance, which means nobody makes a ball that spins like a balata did and so that beautiful rising flight from a driver is unachievable without massively tweaking your swing, which brings in other negatives, and ball shaping is much harder.

I do like the fact that you queried your pro on lesson types in order to add to the conversation though .

I guess it will be down to what you want from your game and the course you play on each week , I have learned to draw the ball a bit more over the last couple of years because that’s the shot that suits the course I play and we aren’t a long course by any stretch. But my swing regardless of what ball it is will always be low and it prob losses a bit of distance to some but it ends up on the fairway more than those going past me. But we are a tight course - some people struggle even though they can hit it further and that’s making people look at more accuracy and forgiving swings etc

Agree that about 6/7 years ago there was a big push about 15 yards longer etc with things like “rocketballz” trying to get more distance and some wanted

But there seems to have been a move to more forgiving clubs etc over the last couple of years.

We have a new pro and he requested a survey from members and gave a presentation the other day and what he focuses on - it was quite interesting even if I don’t bother with lessons.

 

[Wabinez]

Why dont they grow the rough in for the pros and make accuracy a premium

Didn't really work for Bryson at Winged Foot did it. Just smashed it up there, found it, wedged on.

I know it's an extreme example, but growing the rough, unless is it 8ft deep, isn't a productive solution. They still have the speed and power to get out of it...and probably favours the longer tour players more.

 

[D-S]

Didn't really work for Bryson at Winged Foot did it. Just smashed it up there, found it, wedged on.

I know it's an extreme example, but growing the rough, unless is it 8ft deep, isn't a productive solution. They still have the speed and power to get out of it...and probably favours the longer tour players more.

I guess it depends on the type of rough, the US team couldn't get out of the untrampled fescue at Golf National when the Ryder Cup was there.

 

[nickjdavis]

Instead, manufacturers are going to have to spend significant amounts developing new conforming balls that will be given free of charge to the players as they’re sponsored athletes. Guess who’s paying for it…. us when a dozen proV1’s cost £70

All seems nonsensical to me!

Ball manufacturers will have foreseen this announcement and it wouldn't surprise me if there was already two or three years of development and testing of initial designs to meet this coming "scenario of doom". They will also be well on the way to figuring out how to design a ball that may have a 15yd reduction for a 127mph swing but also has a minor distance reduction for a 110mph swing and no reduction whatsoever at most typical amateur swingspeeds.

We will all be using the same ball by 2028.

 

[Steve Wilkes]

It has. Over thelast 20-25 years (since then nothing other than rubbish from equipment manufacturers). Hence the concern, studies, debate, and todays action.

Some part is. But a greater part is the equipment. Hence why ALL golfer have been longer post approx 2003. And the vaste majority are not doing golf strengthe ing and fitness. They are just regular recreational Joe Golfer.

You haven't watch the Netflix Full Swing then, most of the behind the scenes was the guys in the Gym, I was sweating just watching them

 

[Backache]

About 8 shots a round if you believe the 'Drive for show, Putt for dough' thread.

Think that was for high handicap amateurs, for pros the estimate was around 1.2 shots/ round for 20 yds if I recall correctly

 

[BiMGuy]

Crowds at UK DPWT events are considerably more than those almost anywhere else.
One of the main reasons old established clubs don't want DPWT events is the cost and disruption. At one of the British Masters at the Belfry a few years ago, the Tour insisted on closing the Brabazon for two weeks and the other two courses for a week - then they had exclusive use of the hotel, food and beverages included, free for 7 days. The loss of income and cost was enormous. The only revenue that the hotel got was half the gate money. Of course they did this for the advertising etc. that comes with hosting Tour events but if you have the reputation anyway, the club and members do not need the hassle.

Crowds might be bigger at current events. But how would they be supported if more were added?

Most clubs and their members don’t want them. Sponsors aren’t queuing up to fund them.

 

[patricks148]

You really think most people would ask to gain distance?

I’d say it’s more likely to fix a fault of some sort (maybe just me though )

Not me dear boy, length every time

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I'm not sure what this issue is here. The R & A have pointed out that this relates to pro and elite golf. It's taking a bit off the ball but not fundamentally changing it. It won't affect us as golfers, it will barely affect the pro game as we see it (there's a strong argument to say they haven't gone far enough). Is mild bifurcation really that scary for people?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

It’s no surprise to see the OEM come out against it and not be very happy

https://twitter.com/x/status/1635687740464324608

Will be interesting to see what the players say as well

Because they are trying to fudge it all it’s going to be a big mess

The main tours imo won’t apply the local rule but the two Opens may do which will give the Pros the pain of having to potentially play with two balls

If the Pros react negatively then it’s going to get even more messy

Think this is going to get worse

 

[sweaty sock]

Why bother with the half way house, I agree thats just adding to mess. And unsupportable by oems

If your going to change it, grow some (reduced distance) and change it.

 

[LincolnShep]

I don't give a monkeys if the pros use a different spec golf ball to the rest of us. Will make zero difference to my enjoyment.

 

[Bratty]

It’s no surprise to see the OEM come out against it and not be very happy

https://twitter.com/x/status/1635687740464324608

Will be interesting to see what the players say as well

Because they are trying to fudge it all it’s going to be a big mess

The main tours imo won’t apply the local rule but the two Opens may do which will give the Pros the pain of having to potentially play with two balls

If the Pros react negatively then it’s going to get even more messy

Think this is going to get worse

"Break the linkage"...? What a load of old tosh! I would suggest the average amateur doesn't feel a great deal of affinity with a tour pro.
That is Acushnet getting annoyed they'll have to work put a way of fleecing us in new ways!

 

[Albo]

I find it interesting what they have come up with.
I think it’s takings something away from the game in so far as the ability to hit the ball miles, there have been loads of discussions recently here about that very subject, and the common disagreement point being length versus accuracy, I think the pros who hit it miles and are able to keep it in play is a learned skill and this devalues that to a degree.
That said, what they do to courses like the old course, if the wind isn’t up, that’s a shame for a course with such history. Though from what I can understand is the ball shouldn’t go more than 317 yards with a 127 swing speed (and certain launch characteristics), a couple of pros are already pushing that swing speed and in the long drive comps are already a way past it. So if we assume they will all get to somewhere close to 120-125 with the skill of keeping it in play, the ball is going to be carrying 300+ still anyway, and any kind of roll on top of that, I don’t see this fixing what they think is wrong

 

[garyinderry]

Super hot 3 woods coming soon haha

 

[ger147]

Confirmation of Model Local Rule.

https://www.randa.org/articles/prop...el-local-rule-option-for-golf-balls-announced

https://twitter.com/x/status/1635627044942880768

So my pink castle tees are safe?