Relief from GUR

SwingsitlikeHogan

Major Champion
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
32,456
Visit site
Following extensive remodelling that has impacted three holes there are significant areas of GUR. We have been provided with guidance on taking relief from the GUR that points us to Rule 16.1b (inc. reference to Rule 14.3). Fine. What is also provided for two of the holes is the following guidance (not as a LR)
  • Dropping zones have been provided to the left and right, the nearest one to where your ball lays may be used as an additional option.
The implication of use of word ’may’ in that guidance is that even if I can find a NPR, I can alternatively choose to play from the nearest Dropping Zone - or indeed choose to play from the NPR. I find being given such a choice as somewhat unusual as my feeling is that the rules don’t normally give me such latitude in choice of what to do.

Or is such guidance perfectly usual and acceptable, especially where there are significant areas of GUR that impact normal playing of a hole.

I ask as I don‘t wish to be caught up in a debate if I have to take relief and choose to play from the NPR rather than the nearest DZ.
 
Last edited:

Neilds

Assistant Pro
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
3,750
Location
Wiltshire
Visit site
Following extensive remodelling that has impacted three holes there are significant areas of GUR. We have been provided with guidance on taking relief from the GUR that points us to Rule 16.1b (inc. reference to Rule 14.3). Fine. What is also provided for two of the holes is the following guidance (not as a LR)
  • Dropping zones have been provided to the left and right, the nearest one to where your ball lays may be used as an additional option.
The implication of use of word ’may’ in that guidance is that even if I can find a NPR, I can alternatively choose to play from the nearest Dropping Zone - or indeed choose to play from the NPR. I find being given such a choice as somewhat unusual as my feeling is that the rules don’t normally give me such latitude in choice of what to do.

Or is such guidance perfectly usual and acceptable, especially where there are significant areas of GUR that impact normal playing of a hole.

I ask as I don‘t wish to be caught up in a debate if I have to take relief and choose to play from the NPR rather than the nearest DZ.
What do you mean by the bit in bold? There is always an NPR - it may be be where you want to play from but it is always there.
Remember N doesn't mean nicest ;)
 

salfordlad

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 16, 2020
Messages
896
Visit site
Yes the club may have dropping zones for areas of GUR, but they should be using MLR E1.1 and not merely offering guidance.
Pedantry warning: E-1.2 (for GUR); E-1.1 is for PAs.

And for Mr SIL Hogan: DZs by default are an additional option, unless a Committee makes it/them compulsory, over-riding normal relief options (see E-1.3).
 

jim8flog

Journeyman Pro
Joined
May 20, 2017
Messages
14,925
Location
Yeovil
Visit site
For reference

Model Local Rule E-1.2 This Model Local Rule covers the example of a dropping zone used as an extra option for taking relief from an abnormal course condition such as a large area of ground under repair. "If a player's ball is in the ground under repair [identify location], including when it is known or virtually certain that a ball that has not been found is in the ground under repair, the player has these relief options:
  • The player may take relief under Rule 16.1, or
  • As an extra option, the player may take free relief by dropping the original ball or another ball in the dropping zone [describe how the dropping zone is defined and where located]. The dropping zone is a relief area under Rule 14.3.

So I see nothing wrong
 

jim8flog

Journeyman Pro
Joined
May 20, 2017
Messages
14,925
Location
Yeovil
Visit site
Pedantry warning: E-1.2 (for GUR); E-1.1 is for PAs.

And for Mr SIL Hogan: DZs by default are an additional option, unless a Committee makes it/them compulsory, over-riding normal relief options.

Yes I should have cut and paste the right one (now corrected)
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

Major Champion
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
32,456
Visit site
For reference

Model Local Rule E-1.2 This Model Local Rule covers the example of a dropping zone used as an extra option for taking relief from an abnormal course condition such as a large area of ground under repair. "If a player's ball is in the ground under repair [identify location], including when it is known or virtually certain that a ball that has not been found is in the ground under repair, the player has these relief options:
  • The player may take relief under Rule 16.1, or
  • As an extra option, the player may take free relief by dropping the original ball or another ball in the dropping zone [describe how the dropping zone is defined and where located]. The dropping zone is a relief area under Rule 14.3.

So I see nothing wrong
Splendid, it’s always good to know the rules - especially when course circumstances/conditions are not the norm.
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

Major Champion
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
32,456
Visit site
What do you mean by the bit in bold? There is always an NPR - it may be be where you want to play from but it is always there.
Remember N doesn't mean nicest ;)
Indeed I am a bit of a stickler with others on this…and maybe not almost making me flavour of the month 🙄 So best I get it right myself in our current situation. 👍
 

YandaB

Newbie
Joined
Apr 10, 2018
Messages
1,119
Visit site
Following extensive remodelling that has impacted three holes there are significant areas of GUR. We have been provided with guidance on taking relief from the GUR that points us to Rule 16.1b (inc. reference to Rule 14.3). Fine. What is also provided for two of the holes is the following guidance (not as a LR)
  • Dropping zones have been provided to the left and right, the nearest one to where your ball lays may be used as an additional option.
The implication of use of word ’may’ in that guidance is that even if I can find a NPR, I can alternatively choose to play from the nearest Dropping Zone - or indeed choose to play from the NPR. I find being given such a choice as somewhat unusual as my feeling is that the rules don’t normally give me such latitude in choice of what to do.

Or is such guidance perfectly usual and acceptable, especially where there are significant areas of GUR that impact normal playing of a hole.

I ask as I don‘t wish to be caught up in a debate if I have to take relief and choose to play from the NPR rather than the nearest DZ.
RE: BiB. When getting relief from a Penalty area you have several choices. S&D, Back in Line, 2 club lengths (possibly opposite side relief). Seems to be similar choice to that no?
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

Major Champion
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
32,456
Visit site
RE: BiB. When getting relief from a Penalty area you have several choices. S&D, Back in Line, 2 club lengths (possibly opposite side relief). Seems to be similar choice to that no?
That’s true. It is similar so a good comparison for me to bear in mind if discussions arise.

I guess my focus (distraction) was on relief from GUR, with NPR there being just one.
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

Major Champion
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
32,456
Visit site
Here’s an unlikely but not impossible ‘what-if’ for our current course condition.

In playing one hole, what if my ball ends up in GUR between the hole I’m playing and an adjacent hole and there is a DZ on and for that other hole - can I choose to play from that DZ…or is it specifically for the adjacent hole.
 

Colin L

Tour Winner
Joined
May 26, 2012
Messages
5,292
Location
Edinburgh
Visit site
Here’s an unlikely but not impossible ‘what-if’ for our current course condition.

In playing one hole, what if my ball ends up in GUR between the hole I’m playing and an adjacent hole and there is a DZ on and for that other hole - can I choose to play from that DZ…or is it specifically for the adjacent hole.
How could a DZ could be specific to a particular hole? It is an additional relief option for the GUR no matter where the ball came from and where you are playing to. Your ball is in it or your foot is on it - the DZ is available.
 

Wabinez

Journeyman Pro
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
3,401
Visit site
Recently had similar, aside from we had no communication from the club. Merely 2 drop zones were put out, and everyone was under the impression that you HAD to use the DZ as it was marked out.

After a few complaints, an email was sent. 2 weeks later, the GUR doesn't exist any more as the bunkers are back in play
 

jim8flog

Journeyman Pro
Joined
May 20, 2017
Messages
14,925
Location
Yeovil
Visit site
Here’s an unlikely but not impossible ‘what-if’ for our current course condition.

In playing one hole, what if my ball ends up in GUR between the hole I’m playing and an adjacent hole and there is a DZ on and for that other hole - can I choose to play from that DZ…or is it specifically for the adjacent hole.

The reason for the DZ should be specified in the local rule and it only applied/used for that reason.
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

Major Champion
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
32,456
Visit site
The reason for the DZ should be specified in the local rule and it only applied/used for that reason.
I am not aware of the guidance we have been provided with being given in the context of a Local Rule. It is certainly not described as one. My italics.

Guidance below is designed to indicate how and where to take mandatory free relief from the areas of Abnormal Course Condition/Ground Under Repair. Please note that relief must be taken from these areas.

The guidance goes on to say (individually for each of the adjacent holes between which there is shared GUR)

Dropping zones have been provided to the left and right, the nearest one to where your ball lays may be used as an additional option

Clearly the intent is that we use the nearest of the two DZs either side of the hole being played, but it is quite possible for a wildely astray shot to be closer to one of the DZs on the adjacent hole. A NPR may be available but may be horrid, and I might actually prefer to use the DZ I’m close to even though it’s ‘for’ the adjacent hole. Obviously I could still go to the nearest ‘correct’ DZ…but need I? @Colin L post suggests not, that I could use the nearby DZ.
 

Neilds

Assistant Pro
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
3,750
Location
Wiltshire
Visit site
I am not aware of the guidance we have been provided with being given in the context of a Local Rule. It is certainly not described as one. My italics.

Guidance below is designed to indicate how and where to take mandatory free relief from the areas of Abnormal Course Condition/Ground Under Repair. Please note that relief must be taken from these areas.

The guidance goes on to say (individually for each of the adjacent holes between which there is shared GUR)

Dropping zones have been provided to the left and right, the nearest one to where your ball lays may be used as an additional option

Clearly the intent is that we use the nearest of the two DZs either side of the hole being played, but it is quite possible for a wildely astray shot to be closer to one of the DZs on the adjacent hole. A NPR may be available but may be horrid, and I might actually prefer to use the DZ I’m close to even though it’s ‘for’ the adjacent hole. Obviously I could still go to the nearest ‘correct’ DZ…but need I? @Colin L post suggests not, that I could use the nearby DZ.
As previously asked - why do you use the word may when referring to the NPR? It is always there but as you say may be horrible
 

rulefan

Tour Winner
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
14,665
Visit site
I am not aware of the guidance we have been provided with being given in the context of a Local Rule. It is certainly not described as one. My italics.

Guidance below is designed to indicate how and where to take mandatory free relief from the areas of Abnormal Course Condition/Ground Under Repair. Please note that relief must be taken from these areas.

The guidance goes on to say (individually for each of the adjacent holes between which there is shared GUR)

Dropping zones have been provided to the left and right, the nearest one to where your ball lays may be used as an additional option

Clearly the intent is that we use the nearest of the two DZs either side of the hole being played, but it is quite possible for a wildely astray shot to be closer to one of the DZs on the adjacent hole. A NPR may be available but may be horrid, and I might actually prefer to use the DZ I’m close to even though it’s ‘for’ the adjacent hole. Obviously I could still go to the nearest ‘correct’ DZ…but need I? @Colin L post suggests not, that I could use the nearby DZ.
It may not have been fully thought through by the committee but IMO it satisfies the criteria in the model LR for identification of the GUR and where the ball may be dropped in taking relief.
However, if what you describe is not what was intended it should be revised to specify that of the two DZs nearest to the GUR the one nearest the ball should be used if not taking npr relief.
I'm sure you can dream up an appropriate concise form of words. :unsure:
 
Top