Rake Query

[Slab]

Inspired by the rake thread in general forum

Player A has lob/chip shot from middle of narrow fairway of around 40 yards to green, Player B (fellow competitor) is 10 yards closer but off to the right in a bunker so will play second

While Player A selects shot/club etc Player B picks up a rake from its random position and places it on the ground at rear of bunker ready to rake after shot & steps away from Player A field of vision (no local rule or etiquette stated for where rakes should be & no designated rake rack/pole etc)

Player A then takes shot but thins & slices towards bunker where it ricochets off rake and lands edge of green

I think no penalty for player A or B but there's a 2nd scenario...

Player A & B are sharing a golf cart & as well as the numerous rakes on the course they also have one in the cart & it is this rake (identical to existing course rake) that player B lays at rear of green with Player A having the same result to his shot (i.e thin/sliced & hits rake to land edge of green)

Is there now any penalty for Player A &/or Player B?

My thoughts are, is this second rake part of the Players equipment? (A&B) in the same way that the golf cart is

Lastly what change/effect would there be to the ruling for both Players if the two Players were part of the same team instead of fellow competitors?

 

[Colin L]

Good grief, what are you doing up at 0349 posting questions about the Rules of Golf?
Good grief, what am I doing up at 0530 answering questions on the Rules of Golf?

Well, if I can't sleep, I may as well make myself useful and offer my reading of the situations.

Your first situation leads to no penalty. The rake is an outside agency and it doesn't matter who last left it where it is. Player A has a lucky - but where do you find rakes like that one? The ones I know trap your ball and carefully guide it into a really awkward spot in the bunker.

The second scene takes us to the part of the Definition of equipment that deals with a shared cart and which speaks of the cart and everything in it being the equipment of one or other player depending on what is happening. I don't read this as saying that an item taken out of the buggy by one of the players is part of the shared set-up. If, for example, I mishit a shot and the ball bounces off the clubs of the person sharing the cart with me, I am penalised if the clubs are on the cart. If the other player has taken a club out of his bag and I hit that, it is solely his equipment and there is no penalty in stroke play where it is an outside agency. In match play it is not an outside agency but there is no penalty for hitting it. And similarly with the rake, or a hat, or a box of sandwiches or anything that has been taken out of the cart and is in the possession of the other player - including if it has been laid on the ground.

Thirdly, if you have a partner, your equipment includes anything carried by your partner for you. I would reason that the rake is for both of you to use so when carried by your partner he is carrying it for you as well and so it is part of your equipment - resulting in a penalty if you hit it.

At least that's made me sleepy again. Waken me up if anyone has a contrary view.

 

[Slab]

Cool, so in stroke play its shared equipment until a Player removes it from the cart where it becomes his alone (& it then becomes an outside agency with respect to the other players actions)

Glad you were up so early although I'm 4 hours ahead of you (& 30 degrees warmer I'll wager)

It'll be interesting if anyone has another view

 

[rosecott]

Good grief, what are you doing up at 0349 posting questions about the Rules of Golf?
.

Don't forget he's 4 hours in front of us.

 

[Colin L]

Don't forget he's 4 hours in front of us.

I hadn't noticed the Port Louis location.

It'll be interesting if anyone has another view

Yes. I must emphasise that was just my interpretation.

 

[MashieNiblick]

I would not have guessed that my f/c's clubs on a shared cart counted as my equipment if my ball hits them (unless he's actually driving the cart at the time) but that is what the definition says.

"Note 2: When a golf cart is shared by two or more players, the cart and everything in it are deemed to be the equipment of one of the players sharing the cart.

If the cart is being moved by one of the players (or the partner of one of the players) sharing it, the cart and everything in it are deemed to be that player’s equipment. Otherwise, the cart and everything in it are deemed to be the equipment of the player sharing the cart whose ball (or whose partner’s ball) is involved."

So looks right to me.

 

[Slab]

^^^^^^^^^

Surely there must be exceptions to Note 2 to cover the 28 clubs being deemed to be the equipment of the Player driving the cart while the other Player isn't in the cart

Guessing that it comes under the area about carrying extra clubs as long as they are clearly identified which player they belong to but it does seem strange that his clubs could be my clubs in one ruling but his clubs cant be my clubs in another ruling...i'm confused!

 

[MashieNiblick]

I think the Note indicates that if a shared cart is being moved by one of the players sharing it, the cart and all the stuff on the cart is deemed to be the equipment of the player moving it.