Quick Rules. Marking ball on green

[3offTheTee]

If you do not replace the ball when you have marked and moved the ball 1 putter width as you were on your opponent's line of putt is it a 2 shot penalty stroke play , loss of hole match play?

In stoke play do you need to replay the shot from the correct position?

 

[MashieNiblick]

Think this is the applicable rule

Rule 20-3a

(...)

If a ball to be replaced is placed other than on the spot from which it was lifted or moved and the error is not corrected as provided in Rule 20-6, the player incurs the general penalty, loss of hole in match play or two strokes in stroke play, for a breach of the applicable Rule.

Rule 20-6 says

A ball incorrectly substituted, dropped or placed in a wrong place or otherwise not in accordance with the Rules but not played may be lifted, without penalty, and the player must then proceed correctly.

So you don't have to replay the stroke, just a straightforward penalty.

Recall reading that this happened to Bobby Locke when he holed out to win one of his Opens but they didn't impose the penalty as they deemed it made no difference (just looked it up it was 1957 and he won by 3 shots so it wouldn't have changed the outcome). Got this from the official Open site

"When it came his turn to putt out for a final round of 70 and victory by three shots over Thomson, he failed to return his marker to the correct spot. The error was not spotted at the time, but reported to R&A officials later. The Championship Committee quickly decided that with his three-shot lead and no advantage having been gained, the equity and spirit of the game dictated that he should not be disqualified."

Wonder if they'd be so sensible now.

 

[Leftie]

Just a quick tip....

If you do re-mark to one side, turn your ball marker upside down. With luck, that may remind you to replace in the correct position.

 

[RGDave]

Wonder if they'd be so sensible now.

Unlikely.

Personally, if I was writing the rules today, I'd make it a rule that any person moving their ball marker off the line of another players putt at the request of another player can only be penalised if the other player has reminded them to replace the marker. If I asked someone to move their marker to the side and then forgot to remind them to replace it, I wouldn't call a penalty on them.

 

[JustOne]

I got called for this in a 4B matchplay against some 'friends'. I was 40ft from the hole and had to move my ball. When I then stepped up and canned the putt for birdie my opponent ask whether I had marked my ball back, I actually couldn't remember if I had or not so I just said "your hole" and walked off to the next. My playing partner wasn't too happy but when I asked him why he hadn't mentioned it either he just shut up.

When I play against my so called 'friends' again I'm going to ask them to mark/move their ball whenever it's within a foot of my putting line.... "4 to the right please"





(I don't know the exact rules but if you ask an opponent to mark their ball 2 to the right do they HAVE to do it? and what about 3 or 4?)

 

[Robobum]

.......... If I asked someone to move their marker to the side and then forgot to remind them to replace it, I wouldn't call a penalty on them.

I'm with you on the sentiment RGD, but it would DQ you as well.

If I ever get a marker moved I'll always remind them to put it back as I'm walking after my putt.

 

[RGDave]

.......... If I asked someone to move their marker to the side and then forgot to remind them to replace it, I wouldn't call a penalty on them.

I'm with you on the sentiment RGD, but it would DQ you as well.

If I ever get a marker moved I'll always remind them to put it back as I'm walking after my putt.

Yes, rules is rules. Sadly, my choice of action cannot be allowed in a club comp, more's the pity. I can think of a few occasion when someone has fallen foul. I think I've been close....but my partners normally speak up!! especially in pairs golf.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Having to mark to the side happens quite regularly especially in 4 ball matches. I haven't had a problem in the past but I do like the suggestion of turning the marker over to act as a reminder.

I hope someone can clarify the protocol though as I'm starting to doubt myself. When you need to mark the ball to the side am I right in assuming you mark the ball first in the normal way and then move the marker. I've seen so many players just put their putter to the side of the ball and then put the marker at the end of the putter head. Surely that isn't a true representation of the orginal ball position. I've confused myself now!

 

[RGDave]

I hope someone can clarify the protocol though as I'm starting to doubt myself. When you need to mark the ball to the side am I right in assuming you mark the ball first in the normal way and then move the marker. I've seen so many players just put their putter to the side of the ball and then put the marker at the end of the putter head. Surely that isn't a true representation of the orginal ball position. I've confused myself now!

I know what you mean! I mark the ball and then move the marker. My suspicion is that putting a putter head up to a ball and then marking and replacing the ball actually makes the ball a little closer the hole!

 

[MashieNiblick]

Homer, RGD, good question. Decided to look it up and either is permissable. There is an answer to an FAQ on the R&A rules site which says

"The player may either mark the position of the ball, measure to one side of the mark, and move the ball marker to that spot, or he place the putter head directly to the side of the ball and place the ball marker, thereby eliminating one step. See decision 20-1/16"

Decision 20-1/16 says

"Q: The Note to Rule 20-1 provides that “the position of a ball to be lifted should be marked by placing a ball-marker, a small coin or other similar object immediately behind the ball.” Is a player penalized if he uses an object that is not similar to a ball-marker or small coin to mark the position of his ball?

"A: No. The provision in the Note to Rule 20-1 is a recommendation of best practice, but there is no penalty for failing to act in accordance with the Note.
Examples of methods of marking the position of a ball that are not recommended, but are permissible, are as follows:
placing the toe of a club at the side of, or behind, the ball;
using a tee
using a loose impediment;
scratching a line, provided the putting green is not tested (Rule 16-1d) and a line for putting is not indicated (Rule 8-2b). As this practice may cause damage to the putting green, it is discouraged.

"However, under Rule 20-1 it is necessary to physically mark the position of the ball. Reference to an existing mark on the ground does not constitute marking the position of a ball. For example, it is not permissible to mark the position with reference to a blemish on the putting green.

"When moving a ball or ball-marker to the side to prevent it from interfering with another player’s stance or stroke, the player may measure from the side of the ball or ball-marker. In order to accurately replace the ball on the spot from which it was lifted, the steps used to move the ball or ball-marker to the side should be reversed."

So whatever method you use to move the marker/ball you must also use to replace the marker/ball.

Complex but fairly clear and comprehensive.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Thanks for that. Strange that you don't need to mark the ball first but you learn something new everyday.