Quick poll on your new handicap index

[Jigger]

Okay, but to "break even"/"match the course" you'll need a net 69 on the first and a net 74 in the second.

Sorry just trying to get the logic right here in my head.

For both. Slope determines my hcp. easy course I’d could be 17 but the course of 71 has a cr of 69 so I’m expected to hit 86, 15 over the par of the course. On the harder course of 72 that has a cr of 74 I could have a handicap of 16 based on a lower slope but I’m expected to hit a 90 which is 18 over the par of the course?

 

[Jigger]

Though, in this respect WHS, as implemented in England is no different to CONGU.

Yep I agree with that but I thought the whole point of bringing in slope was to balance hcps across courses of differing difficulty.

 

[BubbaP]

Sorry just trying to get the logic right here in my head.

For both. Slope determines my hcp. easy course I’d could be 17 but the course of 71 has a cr of 69 so I’m expected to hit 86, 15 over the par of the course. On the harder course of 72 that has a cr of 74 I could have a handicap of 16 based on a lower slope but I’m expected to hit a 90 which is 18 over the par of the course?

Yeah. Remember on the existing system you were playing against SSS or CSS, not par.
You guess of 4 shots difference looks good!

 

[Jigger]

Yeah. Remember on the existing system you were playing against SSS or CSS, not par.
You guess of 4 shots difference looks good!

Yeah the sss vs css I’ve always got. I’ve deleted most of this reply as something is clicking as his hcp has actually go up. I think I need to see his index breakdown to figure it out. Thanks for the feedback though.

 

[doublebogey7]

Yep I agree with that but I thought the whole point of bringing in slope was to balance hcps across courses of differing difficulty.

The HI achieves that aim. My guess is that England Golf felt that including the CR in the CH calculation was one change to many. I like you disagree, that doesn't though mean that the actions they took did not mean their stated aim.

 

[Jigger]

The HI achieves that aim. My guess is that England Golf felt that including the CR in the CH calculation was one change to many. I like you disagree, that doesn't though mean that the actions they took did not mean their stated aim.

finally got my head around it! it actually makes sense now too. I finally found a really interesting article and applying the below And using a 19 over score for each course I’m 4.5 strokes worse off on my hcp on the easier course Which means when my mate comes from his easier course to my harder course, the scores he entered on his easier course will be reflected in his HI.

 

[brickie]

So, just received an e-mail from my club saying that we will not be implementing WHS handicap index on Monday.
apparently more than 35% of members have a significantly lower index than expected.
C&H are, it seems, asking England golf to sharpen their pencil and have another look at the data supplied.
watch this space

 

[Old Skier]

So, just received an e-mail from my club saying that we will not be implementing WHS handicap index on Monday.
apparently more than 35% of members have a significantly lower index than expected.
C&H are, it seems, asking England golf to sharpen their pencil and have another look at the data supplied.
watch this space

Be interesting to know what system you will use as CONGU will be shut down

 

[brickie]

Be interesting to know what system you will use as CONGU will be shut down

Home course will be non qualifying for next few months so no problem except of course if you want to play elsewhere.

 

[Old Skier]

Home course will be non qualifying for next few months so no problem except of course if you want to play elsewhere.

Surly if your playing non Qs it’s an ideal time to run the WHS and see how much difference it will make.

 

[rulefan]

finally got my head around it! it actually makes sense now too. I finally found a really interesting article and applying the below And using a 19 over score for each course I’m 4.5 strokes worse off on my hcp on the easier course Which means when my mate comes from his easier course to my harder course, the scores he entered on his easier course will be reflected in his HI.
View attachment 33210

The use of the word Using in the attachment above may be confusing

The Manual actually says:-

Score Differential = (113/Slope Rating} x (adjusted gross score - Course Rating - PCC adjustment)

A Handicap Index is calculated from the average of the lowest 8 of the most recent Score Differentials.

 

[srixon 1]

It was 3.2 last week. Had a shocker of a game in the torrential rain last weekend (10 over my handicap), checked again today and my index is now 3.0. ?

 

[rulefan]

My guess is that England Golf felt that including the CR in the CH calculation was one change to many.

Does that mean you are suggesting that England Golf is different to everywhere else?

 

[rulefan]

Yep I agree with that but I thought the whole point of bringing in slope was to balance hcps across courses of differing difficulty.

No.
Course Rating indicates the relative difficulty of courses.
Slope indicates the relative difficulty of a particular course for players of different abilities

 

[Jigger]

It was 3.2 last week. Had a shocker of a game in the torrential rain last weekend (10 over my handicap), checked again today and my index is now 3.0. ?

Must’ve been better than your 8th best score

 

[doublebogey7]

Does that mean you are suggesting that England Golf is different to everywhere else?[/QUOTE
Not everywhere, no. My understanding though is that most countries have have incorporated the CR into the calculation of CH, could be wrong though but would still say that it makes more sense and is less confusing to include it. This thread would seem to support that.

 

[rulefan]

Whilst your expertise on all things rules and handicaps is very clear for all to see on here ?, and I understand the Slope being the relative difficulty for a higher handicap v scratch player, it's still hard to argue with those saying that Slope indicates difficulty when all the tough courses have high Slope numbers.

Are there any well known supposedly "difficult" courses that have a low Slope to disprove that?

I don'y know of any but haven't looked.
But it seems very likely that 'tough' courses will be relatively even 'tougher' for higher handicappers.

However I have just looked at my course and the CR for whites and yellows differs by 2.2 but the BR differs by 3.7.
That is undoubtedly largely due length in this case. I would guess that low slopes would generally mean lots of trouble for long hitters and no bunkers or water in range for shorter hitters

 

[rulefan]

Not everywhere, no. My understanding though is that most countries have have incorporated the CR into the calculation of CH, could be wrong though but would still say that it makes more sense and is less confusing to include it. This thread would seem to support that.

Are you thinking of the extra step of (CR-Par) rather than CR alone.

 

[BubbaP]

Whilst your expertise on all things rules and handicaps is very clear for all to see on here ?, and I understand the Slope being the relative difficulty for a higher handicap v scratch player, it's still hard to argue with those saying that Slope indicates difficulty when all the tough courses have high Slope numbers.

Are there any well known supposedly "difficult" courses that have a low Slope to disprove that?

Obviously I'm no expert, but I used two real courses near me in the example below where the one with the lower slope is the one I considered the more difficult
https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/threads/world-handicap-system-whs.104054/post-2249251

 

[rulefan]

Obviously I'm no expert, but I used two real courses near me in the example below where the one with the lower slope is the one I considered the more difficult
https://forums.golf-monthly.co.uk/threads/world-handicap-system-whs.104054/post-2249251

And you showed that because the Course Rating was higher (although the slope was lower) your perception was right because they were different courses