Putting with flag in - unintended consequences

[backwoodsman]

I can quite easily get my ball out without touching the lip of the hole and I certainly don't damage it in anyway.

Some cumbersome people out there obviously!

Well, good for you.

All I know is that personally, I cant get my short stubby hand far enough down to pick up a ball from a 2 inch gap without at least touching the sides. (So I don't try). And of the, admittedly few, people I've since watched, they can't either.

 

[6535]

I certainly don’t damage the hole when retrieving my ball, I have the whole hole to get my hand in as I play golf like it’s been played for decades, the pin out. This putting with the pin in is a total debacle that the RandA and USGA have brought into the game.

 

[clubchamp98]

No. They would have to change the rules to make it a LR to permit putting with the flagstick in - although there is a precedent when the European Tour permitted repair of spike marks for a period as a trial.

Shouldn’t it be like F1 where technology filters down to our cars.
So the pros try things that we may adopt in future.

Not this obviously as it’s just been changed the other way!
But did the spike mark trial lead to the ability to repair the green this year.?

 

[garyinderry]

If you damage the hole once and don't learn from your mistakes then there is no hope.

Fat hands, short fingers or bad back. Remove the stick and lift the ball. Don't touch the edge of the cup.

Rocket science is it not. 🤣

 

[williamalex1]

Any reason they can't have the same type of pins used on practice putting greens ?. The ones that have a cup type flange on the bottom of the pin, that lifts the ball out.

???

 

[backwoodsman]

If you damage the hole once and don't learn from your mistakes then there is no hope.

Fat hands, short fingers or bad back. Remove the stick and lift the ball. Don't touch the edge of the cup.

Rocket science is it not. 🤣

Exactly. But it's evident it's a lesson not being learned. Possibly (??) because each individual "contribution" is marginal and not noticed by the individual. Its only the cumulative result that becomes so?

 

[clubchamp98]

Exactly. But it's evident it's a lesson not being learned. Possibly (??) because each individual "contribution" is marginal and not noticed by the individual. Its only the cumulative result that becomes so?

So the guys at the back of the comp will have a big advantage if the holes are bigger.

 

[garyinderry]

Cups do tend to warp in winter on really soft greens. It's not a new phenomenon.


See Delc's old posts about crowned holes etc.


Maybe the masses need updated tips on how to protect the course. What seems like common sense to me is clearly lacking in others.

 

[williamalex1]

So the guys at the back of the comp will have a big advantage if the holes are bigger.

 

[backwoodsman]

So the guys at the back of the comp will have a big advantage if the holes are bigger.

Indeed! One of the guys I was playing with, comment something like "I like these bigger holes - makes the ball go in more easily."

(As an aside, would also comment that our greens are as good as they've ever been - and the issue is one we've never had before. It has only manifest itself in past three weeks. Coincidence, I think not).

 

[Jacko_G]

Well, good for you.

All I know is that personally, I cant get my short stubby hand far enough down to pick up a ball from a 2 inch gap without at least touching the sides. (So I don't try). And of the, admittedly few, people I've since watched, they can't either.

Therefore remove the flag to retrieve your ball and jobs a good un!

No need to "touch the side of the hole" - ever - and problem is solved.

I would also suggest that you approach your committee/board and suggest that they look at buying those plastic lip/rim protectors that I've seen at some golf courses, although I know that my local course in the village only uses these as they don't have the manpower to change/rotate and or repair holes as often as they should therefore they have them to reduce wear and tear. Would solve the issue you seem to be experiencing.

Played a parkland course on Sunday and the greens and holes were still immaculate despite the recent wet weather. The advantages of having a great greens team and a proactive golf club.

 

[sunshine]

I can quite easily get my ball out without touching the lip of the hole and I certainly don't damage it in anyway.

Some cumbersome people out there obviously!

Quite. Really very straight forward.

Mod Edit

 

[sunshine]

Why NQ? There's a caveat to the rule that the liner must be 1" below the surface - need not be if the character of the soil makes it impractical. And if holes without the rings would get damaged then that seems like a perfect example of this circumstance.

My club uses those rings in winter and we run qualifying comps with them in.

Thanks, that is interesting info.

 

[duncan mackie]

But did the spike mark trial lead to the ability to repair the green this year.?

Quite the opposite - based on how it was abused it was quickly abandoned and shelved as an idea for decades!

Time will tell whether previous practices re-emerge but in general the putting surfaces nowadays are much better and the golf shoe and cleat systems do not create the same scale of issue for later groups.

 

[garyinderry]

Reading a few articles on this flag in/out subject and it seems as if the flag needing to be removed was only implemented around 1960.


Can anyone confirm that the R & A have gone back to the roots of the game with this one?

 

[duncan mackie]

Reading a few articles on this flag in/out subject and it seems as if the flag needing to be removed was only implemented around 1960.


Can anyone confirm that the R & A have gone back to the roots of the game with this one?

Not a simple question!

There used to be different rules for on the putting green, within 20yds of the hole and on the green and within 20 yds of the hole regardless of being on the green. They referenced many of the things we currently take for granted and were constantly being tuned!
For example you could putt from outside 20yds with the pin in, but not from within that distance (without penalty), then you could, then the distance went and you could (1968 - when you could also clean the ball on the putting green for the first time, but only for your first putt!).

 

[clubchamp98]

Quite the opposite - based on how it was abused it was quickly abandoned and shelved as an idea for decades!

Time will tell whether previous practices re-emerge but in general the putting surfaces nowadays are much better and the golf shoe and cleat systems do not create the same scale of issue for later groups.

So the pros can’t be trusted not to abuse the rules!
That’s not a surprise.

 

[clubchamp98]

Cups do tend to warp in winter on really soft greens. It's not a new phenomenon.


See Delc's old posts about crowned holes etc.


Maybe the masses need updated tips on how to protect the course. What seems like common sense to me is clearly lacking in others.

See your logic but I have always seen on soft greens the holes normally get smaller .
Based on the lumpy doughnut Theory by Dave Peltz.
With people standing to near the hole when retrieving their ball.
Don’t remember any getting bigger!

 

[backwoodsman]

Therefore remove the flag to retrieve your ball and jobs a good un!

No need to "touch the side of the hole" - ever - and problem is solved.

I would also suggest that you approach your committee/board and suggest that they look at buying those plastic lip/rim protectors that I've seen at some golf courses, although I know that my local course in the village only uses these as they don't have the manpower to change/rotate and or repair holes as often as they should therefore they have them to reduce wear and tear. Would solve the issue you seem to be experiencing.

Played a parkland course on Sunday and the greens and holes were still immaculate despite the recent wet weather. The advantages of having a great greens team and a proactive golf club.

Yes, I know that's the obvious solution. But its equally obvious that people aren't doing it.

The hole collars might be a solution - but part of the issue is that they are supposed to be an inch below the lip of the hole - which is too deep to be any real help. I happen to know we have them in stock. We used to use them but the members didn't like them so we stopped. They may have to lump it from now on if they can't be trusted not to damage the hole edge. (And the ultimate decision whether we do will, in effect, be mine ...)

 

[garyinderry]

See your logic but I have always seen on soft greens the holes normally get smaller .
Based on the lumpy doughnut Theory by Dave Peltz.
With people standing to near the hole when retrieving their ball.
Don’t remember any getting bigger!

I have seen them get bigger when you have a sagging flag and the wind is blowing hard. It rolls around the edge of the hole and widens it.

Nothing to do with anyone's hands. The stick acts like a rolling pin and makes the hole a little deformed.

Only really a winter thing.