Putting with flag in - unintended consequences

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backwoodsman

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Just noticed this weekend that all our holes appear to be getting damaged - in a way I've not noticed before. The edge of every hole is getting "compressed" so that the rim of the hole is slightly wider than the hole itself. Instead of there being a crisp "right-angle" edge to the hole, there is a gentle slope starting about 1cm away from the true edge.

Since folk started putting with the flag in, I've noticed that nearly everyone picks the ball out of the hole without taking the flag out. I've also noticed that in doing so, their fingers generally aren't long enough and they are accidentally pressing on the edge of the hole - slowly giving rise to the damage

Any one else notice similar? Unfortunate, as I don't see any easy prevention other than very frequent cutting of new holes.
 
backwoodsman said:
Just noticed this weekend that all our holes appear to be getting damaged - in a way I've not noticed before. The edge of every hole is getting "compressed" so that the rim of the hole is slightly wider than the hole itself. Instead of there being a crisp "right-angle" edge to the hole, there is a gentle slope starting about 1cm away from the true edge.

Since folk started putting with the flag in, I've noticed that nearly everyone picks the ball out of the hole without taking the flag out. I've also noticed that in doing so, their fingers generally aren't long enough and they are accidentally pressing on the edge of the hole - slowly giving rise to the damage

Any one else notice similar? Unfortunate, as I don't see any easy prevention other than very frequent cutting of new holes.
Click to expand...

Yeah I’ve noticed a decline in how the holes look lately. Another issue that putting with the flag in has risen.

Simple solution, get rid of the flag in rule.
 
I mentioned this as well in the 'putting with the flag in' megathread. I noticed it myself when pulling the ball out of the hole with the flag still in, you do have to be very careful to pick it out without damaging the hole edge, and some won't be as careful as others.
 
I think in the summer when new pins are getting cut every few days it will be less of an issue.

But I would also put this into the category of general wear and tear on the course. Similar to people not replacing divots or repairing pitch marks.

Also likely that clubs will start naturally replacing their flag sticks with narrower / tapered flags.

However, people should take more care.
 
backwoodsman said:
Just noticed this weekend that all our holes appear to be getting damaged - in a way I've not noticed before. The edge of every hole is getting "compressed" so that the rim of the hole is slightly wider than the hole itself. Instead of there being a crisp "right-angle" edge to the hole, there is a gentle slope starting about 1cm away from the true edge.

Since folk started putting with the flag in, I've noticed that nearly everyone picks the ball out of the hole without taking the flag out. I've also noticed that in doing so, their fingers generally aren't long enough and they are accidentally pressing on the edge of the hole - slowly giving rise to the damage

Any one else notice similar? Unfortunate, as I don't see any easy prevention other than very frequent cutting of new holes.
Click to expand...

Nope not at all.

If anything the holes are in better condition as people are not leaning flags at a stupid angle denting holes while tending the flag and flags not getting removed means that they're not getting put back at an angle and getting blown about in the wind causing issues.
 
backwoodsman said:
Just noticed this weekend that all our holes appear to be getting damaged - in a way I've not noticed before. The edge of every hole is getting "compressed" so that the rim of the hole is slightly wider than the hole itself. Instead of there being a crisp "right-angle" edge to the hole, there is a gentle slope starting about 1cm away from the true edge.

Since folk started putting with the flag in, I've noticed that nearly everyone picks the ball out of the hole without taking the flag out. I've also noticed that in doing so, their fingers generally aren't long enough and they are accidentally pressing on the edge of the hole - slowly giving rise to the damage

Any one else notice similar? Unfortunate, as I don't see any easy prevention other than very frequent cutting of new holes.
Click to expand...
Mentioned it in the other main thread. Some definite damage to some of the holes at my club. Whether that's people simply not taking the flag out first and reaching into the hole, trying to be clever and yank the flag and ball out together or something different I can't say. It was very apparent on a couple of holes and like you there was a gentle slope on them
 
Seeing more and more ball retriever devices on the end of putter handles...and it only takes a moment to create that sloped edge (watched it happen time and time again).
Used with the flag still in its even worse.
 
Isn't this just because it's January and the greens are soft? I'm sure this is an issue every year, and not just a new phenomenon. Our course has a plastic ring in each cup at the moment to stabilise the hole and protect it from damage. Makes all comps NQ but that's not really a big deal at this time of year.

I have no problem removing the ball with the flag in, I don't think I have particularly long or slender fingers. Maybe it's only a problem if you've got really fat fingers?
 
duncan mackie said:
Seeing more and more ball retriever devices on the end of putter handles...and it only takes a moment to create that sloped edge (watched it happen time and time again).
Used with the flag still in its even worse.
Click to expand...
You know those cups at the bottom of the pins on practice greens that we use to retrieve the ball? Maybe it would be a good idea to have the same thing on the flagsticks? I reckon that would help reduce damage to the holes.
 
cliveb said:
You know those cups at the bottom of the pins on practice greens that we use to retrieve the ball? Maybe it would be a good idea to have the same thing on the flagsticks? I reckon that would help reduce damage to the holes.
Click to expand...
Until people want the flag out and then the saucer will leave dents all over the green.....
It just takes a little care to retrieve the ball without damaging anything.
Not hard of you put your mind to it.
 
sunshine said:
Our course has a plastic ring in each cup at the moment to stabilise the hole and protect it from damage. Makes all comps NQ ...
Click to expand...
Why NQ? There's a caveat to the rule that the liner must be 1" below the surface - need not be if the character of the soil makes it impractical. And if holes without the rings would get damaged then that seems like a perfect example of this circumstance.

My club uses those rings in winter and we run qualifying comps with them in.
 
backwoodsman said:
Just noticed this weekend that all our holes appear to be getting damaged - in a way I've not noticed before. The edge of every hole is getting "compressed" so that the rim of the hole is slightly wider than the hole itself. Instead of there being a crisp "right-angle" edge to the hole, there is a gentle slope starting about 1cm away from the true edge.

Since folk started putting with the flag in, I've noticed that nearly everyone picks the ball out of the hole without taking the flag out. I've also noticed that in doing so, their fingers generally aren't long enough and they are accidentally pressing on the edge of the hole - slowly giving rise to the damage

Any one else notice similar? Unfortunate, as I don't see any easy prevention other than very frequent cutting of new holes.
Click to expand...
Ours are being damaged by people yanking the flag out hoping the ball comes with it.
It was the greenkeeper who pointed it out to us.
It’s being monitored by the club.
 
patricks148 said:
is it making the hole larger??

if so DelC will be over the moon;)
Click to expand...

Thanks folks for the replies so far.

Definitely making the the hole bigger. On the instances I've seen, the top diameter of the "hole" is now, give or take, an inch bigger than the bottom of tbe hole. And I am absolutely convinced it is picking the ball out of the hole while the flag is still in that is the cause.

I am noncommittal on puttjng with flag or out - and of tbe games I've played, general concensus is leaving in for long putts, and out for shorter. But, whenever the ball has been holed with the flag in, I have not yet seen anyone take out the flag before trying to retrieve their ball.
 
duncan mackie said:
Seeing more and more ball retriever devices on the end of putter handles...and it only takes a moment to create that sloped edge (watched it happen time and time again).
Used with the flag still in its even worse.
Click to expand...

At least with the new rules if it is obvious that the hole has been damaged by someone doing this you can repair it before you putt.
 
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