Provisionals and unplayable lies

[duncan mackie]

do ya mind if I ask . within golf , what is the purpose of hitting a provisional shot or the reason for the provisional shot being introduced ?

to deal with uncertaintly regarding the original shot in terms of it being 'lost' or 'out of bounds' when the only alternative in either case would be to play another ball from the same position.

the status of the ball is a matter of fact ie it's either lost (by the definition of a lost ball) or it's OOB and in neither case is an alternative of playing it again present.

in providing for the provisional ball in such situations play can be speeded up. It won't always be speeded up, but in most cases it will be.

you cannot play a ball provisionally on it being in a water hazard or unplayable because the option to play the ball in such situations still exists if the ball is found and the player would then have a value call over playing it or playing the 'provisional' ie depending on where the provisional went the player might decide whether to play the other! This would be inappropriate. Let's not take these elements further in this thread as they have been done to death and anyone interested in them should use the search facility.

Just to close off the definition of a lost ball in case there's any confusion over that -

"A ball is deemed “lost” if:
a. It is not found or identified as his by the player within five minutes after the player’s side or his or their caddies have begun to search for it; or
b. The player has made a stroke at a provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place (see Rule 27-2b); or
c. The player has put another ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance under Rule 26-1a, 27-1 or 28a; or
d. The player has put another ball in play because it is known or virtually certain that the ball, which has not been found, has been moved by an outside agency (see Rule 18-1), is in an obstruction (see Rule 24-3), is in an abnormal ground condition (see Rule 25-1c) or is in a water hazard (see Rule 26-1b or c); or
e. The player has made a stroke at a substituted ball.
Time spent in playing a wrong ball is not counted in the five-minute period allowed for search."

 

[brendy]

Eggggsactly!
3 off the tee or potentially a few hacks at the ball and walk off to the next tee in a huff.

If you have no intention of searching for the original as you believe it to be lost then when you reload don't declare it to be a provisional; it's then three off the tee, it's the ball in play and the original is of no consequence even if subsequently found.

 

[bladeplayer]

So that if you can't or don't want to find it, you don't have to go back to play another.

Cant meaning you looked but couldn't (so the guy did the right thing even tho it wasn't in the rules he had to )

Don't want to ... just reload don't announce it as a provo ..

 

[Ethan]

No, Im saying that I hit the second ball of the tee and walk straight to it without looking for the first one. I am already taking penalty of 3 off the tee so see no problem with it.
It doesnt happen often and I do like to call provisional if I think I have a good chance of finding it, but sometimes you just know as it hurtles sideways into the gorse etc.

Or if you hit the second ball off the tee without properly declaring it is a provisional, then you have played 3 off the tee and must continue with that ball.

'Whoops, looks like I need to reload', for example, is not a proper declaration of a provisional.

 

[bladeplayer]

If you have no intention of searching for the original as you believe it to be lost then when you reload don't declare it to be a provisional; .

That's what im getting at Stevie , don't declare it , but if you do, then the right thing is to go look for it .. but just my opinion tho

 

[Twire]

If you have no intention of searching for the original as you believe it to be lost then when you reload don't declare it to be a provisional; it's then three off the tee, it's the ball in play and the original is of no consequence even if subsequently found.

But you don't know if you'll be looking for it until you've hit another . If you bang your provisional up the middle, you might decide not to look, but if you put your provisional in the same place as the first it doubles your chances of finding one that's why it's best to declare provisionals.

 

[bladeplayer]

But you don't know if you'll be looking for it until you've hit another . If you bang your provisional up the middle, you might decide not to look, .

There being the honest part :thup: by declaring it a provo you announce your intention to look for it , but if ya don't find it , you will go with the second one may not be a rule, but its honest

 

[stevie_r]

That's what im getting at Stevie , don't declare it , but if you do, then the right thing is to go look for it .. but just my opinion tho

There is also the chance of course that your original ball isn't in as bad a shape as you at first suspected, pick up your prov and crack on.

 

[Twire]

There being the honest part :thup: by declaring it a provo you announce your intention to look for it , but if ya don't find it , you will go with the second one may not be a rule, but its honest

I haven't announced my intention to look for anything by declaring a provisional.

"Honest...the right thing to do" Next you'll be saying it's not in the "Spirit of the game"

Within the rules of golf sometimes you will get penalised through no fault of your own, other times you can use the rules to your advantage, this is one of those times. Have you never used the rules to your advantage?

 

[rulefan]

Cant meaning you looked but couldn't (so the guy did the right thing even tho it wasn't in the rules he had to )
.

The rules don't say you must. If they don't say you must then you may or may not.
In a number of decisions it is clearly understood that players will legitimately choose not to. There is no obligation to search (moral or otherwise).

 

[duncan mackie]

There being the honest part :thup: by declaring it a provo you announce your intention to look for it , but if ya don't find it , you will go with the second one may not be a rule, but its honest

IMO you are still risking confusing people

this has absolutely nothing to do with 'honesty' in the way you keep posting

the fact that you think you might be able to find and play your original ball when you played a provisional doesn't change when you have hit it down the middle - if you had found it in most instances you will be better off - but there are frequently times on the course when people are prepared to forego that marginal advantage in favour of just getting on with it; in no way does this make them 'dishonest'.

 

[bladeplayer]

The rules don't say you must. If they don't say you must then you may or may not.
In a number of decisions it is clearly understood that players will legitimately choose not to. There is no obligation to search (moral or otherwise).

I haven't announced my intention to look for anything by declaring a provisional.

"Honest...the right thing to do" Next you'll be saying it's not in the "Spirit of the game"

Within the rules of golf sometimes you will get penalised through no fault of your own, other times you can use the rules to your advantage, this is one of those times. Have you never used the rules to your advantage?

Guess we are not going to agree on this one ha ha

Just for the record I didn't mention rules or say you must , im saying when you declare a provisional ball you are announcing that you are playing this in case I cannont find my original ball ... IMO you should then look for the original ..

BUT its not a RULE its just my opinion .. so il leave it at that

 

[brendy]

There is also nothing to stop you announcing the provisional and walking up the fairway and having a quick glance, if it is sat out, play it, if not carry on walking to the provisional. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, as Neil said, the rules can go for you sometimes, others against.

 

[ludders]

The way I see it is there is only 2 times you need to call a provisional
1 if the ball lands and could be OOB or
2 where on the course it could be lost (high possibility)

If you declare a provisional your intention is to look for the original ball thus giving you an opportunity to save time

 

[Colin L]

The way I see it is there is only 2 times you need to call a provisional
1 if the ball lands and could be OOB or
2 where on the course it could be lost (high possibility)

If you declare a provisional your intention is to look for the original ball thus giving you an opportunity to save time

That's fine with two qualifications. It's not quite anywhere on the course as you may not play a provisional ball if your ball might be lost in a water hazard and you might (without any whiff of dishonesty!) change your intention to look for your ball as you get closer and see just what trouble you would be in if you found it.

 

[williamalex1]

The op said his first ball was found and identified, so his first ball is in play . He can't can't play the provisional.

 

[rulefan]

The way I see it is there is only 2 times you need to call a provisional
1 if the ball lands and could be OOB or
2 where on the course it could be lost (high possibility)

If you declare a provisional your intention is to look for the original ball thus giving you an opportunity to save time

It saves more time if, when going forward, you realise the ball is probably unplayable and choose not to search further.

 

[rulefan]

Guess we are not going to agree on this one ha ha

Just for the record I didn't mention rules or say you must , im saying when you declare a provisional ball you are announcing that you are playing this in case I cannont find my original ball ... IMO you should then look for the original ..

BUT its not a RULE its just my opinion .. so il leave it at that

Par 3. You hit a ball that may be lost in the jungle. You hole your provisional. You search for your original. Really ???

 

[Leftie]

One other point, "declaring a ball lost" has no meaning.

e.g. In a match you carve your tee shot into the bundoo, then correctly declare and play a provisional.

On approaching the area were your first ball went, you think that the ball might be in deep trouble so you "declare it lost". Your opponents are quite entitled to go and look for it and, if they find it before you next play your provisional, tough!

 

[Imurg]

you may not play a provisional ball if your ball might be lost in a water hazard

Soo........

If a yellow staked ditch lies in the really rough rough, you drive towards it but due to light conditions (or semi-blindness!) you can't tell if it cleared, dropped in or dropped short but it's still in the clag - can you hit a Provisional? After all, it "might" be lost in the hazard.....