Provisional or not?

[chrisd]

A question I was asked today in a Stableford comp.
The player hits his drive and walks down expecting to find it, when it is likely he may not find it he declares and trots back to play a provisional and is back on the tee within 3 minutes. He tees up and there is a shout that his ball is found but he decides to still hit what he has called a provisional, as he doesn't want to take the risk that the found ball is not his. It was his original ball.

Because of the uncertainty as to how he stood rule wise he continued with the provisional and deemed it the ball in play

Anyone clear this up ?

 

[bobmac]

A question I was asked today in a Stableford comp.
The player hits his drive and walks down expecting to find it, when it is likely he may not find it he declares and trots back to play a provisional

I think he's in the doo dah already

 

[robinthehood]

Sounds to me like he has played the wrong ball as his ball was found. Seems odd to play a provional when yours has been found.

 

[robinthehood]

I think he's in the doo dah already

No , old rules

 

[berniethebolt]

As I understand it you can only hit a provisional immediately after hitting the first ball. You cannot go and look for the first ball and then decide to go back and hit a provisional. There is some provision that you can go forward a short distance to check whether a provisional is advisable but it is only a short distance. As soon as the player hit the second ball it became the ball in play regardless of what happened with the first ball. He was correct is his action in declaring the second ball as the ball in play and was 3 off the tee.

 

[robinthehood]

As I understand it you can only hit a provisional immediately after hitting the first ball. You cannot go and look for the first ball and then decide to go back and hit a provisional. There is some provision that you can go forward a short distance to check whether a provisional is advisable but it is only a short distance. As soon as the player hit the second ball it became the ball in play regardless of what happened with the first ball. He was correct is his action in declaring the second ball as the ball in play and was 3 off the tee.

I think as soon as his ball was found he should have played that, the problem seems to come playing the provisional after his was found. To me is seems like a wrong ball , I'll be interested in what the experts say.

 

[chrisd]

As I understand it you can only hit a provisional immediately after hitting the first ball. You cannot go and look for the first ball and then decide to go back and hit a provisional. There is some provision that you can go forward a short distance to check whether a provisional is advisable but it is only a short distance. As soon as the player hit the second ball it became the ball in play regardless of what happened with the first ball. He was correct is his action in declaring the second ball as the ball in play and was 3 off the tee.

Thr rule changed in the recent set of changes and you can now go back as I understand

 

[Backache]

I think as soon as his ball was found he should have played that, the problem seems to come playing the provisional after his was found. To me is seems like a wrong ball , I'll be interested in what the experts say.

To me it sounds as if his was found but had not been identified he was in his rights to play a provisional ball as uncertainty existed. However as he had apparently declared it to be provisional the original became the ball in play once it was idnetified as it was found within three minutes, the identicfication does not have to be within three minutes.
As you say, interesting to see what the experts say.

 

[robinthehood]

To me it sounds as if his was found but had not been identified he was in his rights to play a provisional ball as uncertainty existed. However as he had apparently declared it to be provisional the original became the ball in play once it was idnetified as it was found within three minutes, the identicfication does not have to be within three minutes.
As you say, interesting to see what the experts say.

I agree , the more I think the more I'm certain he should have played his original

 

[bladeplayer]

As said You cant go back to play a provisional . In the new rules There is a distance, which im not sure 100% of , possibly a few yards u can decide to hit a provo . Been down at ball and going back would b well outside of this allowance ..
When he hit second ball it became ball in play and he was within is rights to finish with it ..
His problem would have occured if he had played ball 1 again as it would now b wrong ball

 

[chrisd]

As said You cant go back to play a provisional . In the new rules There is a distance, which im not sure 100% of , possibly a few yards u can decide to hit a provo . Been down at ball and going back would b well outside of this allowance ..
When he hit second ball it became ball in play and he was within is rights to finish with it ..
His problem would have occured if he had played ball 1 again as it would now b wrong ball

The not going back, or only going back a certain distance were the old pre 2019 changes to the rules. Since 2019 I'm sure you can go back any time within 3 minutes now but my question has different questions to the norm

 

[robinthehood]

As said You cant go back to play a provisional . In the new rules There is a distance, which im not sure 100% of , possibly a few yards u can decide to hit a provo . Been down at ball and going back would b well outside of this allowance ..
When he hit second ball it became ball in play and he was within is rights to finish with it ..
His problem would have occured if he had played ball 1 again as it would now b wrong ball

The rule doesn't appear to mention going forward any more.

 

[robinthehood]

The not going back, or only going back a certain distance were the old pre 2019 changes to the rules. Since 2019 I'm sure you can go back any time within 3 minutes now but my question has different questions to the norm

What are your thoughts?

 

[clubchamp98]

How far did he hit his original.
If he can get there and back to the tee in less than three mins he must be fast.

I would say if his original ball is found within the three mins that’s the ball in play.
He can hit a provisional within the three mins but once his original is identified that’s the ball in play .
By playing on with the provisional ball it’s the wrong ball and in stableford prob an NR.

 

[berniethebolt]

I stand corrected. Decision 18.3a/2 But does the original ball have to be identified within the 3 minutes? A ball being found is not identified until the player does so.

 

[chrisd]

What are your thoughts?

I really couldn't give a sure answer. Had he not hit the "provisional" and the found ball not been his then he would have had (assuming the 3 minutes were up) to go back and put a ball into play, so my guess is that he should have checked the found ball before hitting off the tee so I would assume that the tee shot was not a provisional but was the ball in play ? As luck was, it was a Stableford so he could have just blubbed but I think he recorded a 6 for 1

 

[Backache]

How far did he hit his original.
If he can get there and back to the tee in less than three mins he must be fast.

.

It's three minutes from when you arrive at the place you are looking so he has to get back not there and back and reading the original post it was found before he got right back but he played the provisional as he hadn't identified it.

I stand corrected. Decision 18.3a/2 But does the original ball have to be identified within the 3 minutes? A ball being found is not identified until the player does so.

No the ball just has to be found within the three minutes.

 

[bobmac]

I haven't read all the new rules as I don't play any more, but do the rules now say you can hit your drive, go and look for it and then go back to the tee and hit a provisional ?

 

[chrisd]

I haven't read all the new rules as I don't play any more, but do the rules now say you can hit your drive, go and look for it and then go back to the tee and hit a provisional ?

So long as you do it within 3 minutes I understand

 

[bobmac]

So long as you do it within 3 minutes I understand

What a stupid rule.
It defeats the object of saving time.
I wonder how often its used