Pronouns

[Fade and Die]

How about if physically you were born x but your head says you are y?

I’m afraid it doesn’t matter. You are an X for the rest of your life. If X had committed a crime and the Police did a DNA test, the suspect would be X. If X was cloned all the results would be Xs. Inconvenient in this woke age but that’s biology for ya. 2 sexes only. Plus a tiny % of biological mutations with both. Intersex.

 

[Hobbit]

Then like I said you have the option to change. But the fact remains you will be going from one to the other.

Where does Caster Semenya fit into that equation? Outwardly, physically a female but with a naturally elevated testosterone level…

 

[RichA]

I’m afraid it doesn’t matter. You are an X for the rest of your life. If X had committed a crime and the Police did a DNA test, the suspect would be X. If X was cloned all the results would be Xs. Inconvenient in this woke age but that’s biology for ya. 2 sexes only. Plus a tiny % of biological mutations with both. Intersex.

I don't think life is ruled by what might happen if you are the subject of a police investigation based on your DNA.
Like many on here, I grew up in the 70s. I remember a few kids who were labelled as stupid, weird, effeminate, lazy or unteachable and suffered bullying and lack of opportunities as a result. Nowadays they would hopefully be recognised as whatever they are rather than labelled and pigeonholed and allowed to develop without stigma.
There's no cause to be afraid of progress.

 

[Fade and Die]

I don't think life is ruled by what might happen if you are the subject of a police investigation based on your DNA.
Like many on here, I grew up in the 70s. I remember a few kids who were labelled as stupid, weird, effeminate, lazy or unteachable and suffered bullying and lack of opportunities as a result. Nowadays they would hopefully be recognised as whatever they are rather than labelled and pigeonholed and allowed to develop without stigma.
There's no cause to be afraid of progress.

As a child of the 70s/80s myself I recognise your last 2nd statement well. Heartbreaking thinking back at all the taunts and bullying that went on. Thankfully mental illness is now widely recognised and these pupils get a lot of help and support.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Gender being different to biological gender is quite a thing to get your head around when biological gender has been the baseline for all time.

 

[RichA]

As a child of the 70s/80s myself I recognise your last 2nd statement well. Heartbreaking thinking back at all the taunts and bullying that went on. Thankfully mental illness is now widely recognised and these pupils get a lot of help and support.

I'm not talking about mental illness.

 

[Fade and Die]

I'm not talking about mental illness.

Yeah you are.

 

[ColchesterFC]

I don't think life is ruled by what might happen if you are the subject of a police investigation based on your DNA.
Like many on here, I grew up in the 70s. I remember a few kids who were labelled as stupid, weird, effeminate, lazy or unteachable and suffered bullying and lack of opportunities as a result. Nowadays they would hopefully be recognised as whatever they are rather than labelled and pigeonholed and allowed to develop without stigma.
There's no cause to be afraid of progress.

Is the danger now that these children are still being labelled and pigeonholed just with different labels? When I was growing up there were kids in school that were labelled as naughty little *****. Now they are labelled as having ADHD, learning difficulties etc. There may be far less stigma attached to these things now but they are still being labelled.

 

[RichA]

Is the danger now that these children are still being labelled and pigeonholed just with different labels? When I was growing up there were kids in school that were labelled as naughty little *****. Now they are labelled as having ADHD, learning difficulties etc. There may be far less stigma attached to these things now but they are still being labelled.

40 years ago, these kids were assembled in rooms or schools for "Slow Learning Pupils", as they were labelled in my area. They weren't helped - just managed until they weren't the school's problem anymore. At least now there is a system set up to actually provide development.

 

[GreiginFife]

My view is that people can describe themselves whatever they want. It does me no harm and it's up to them. There is a however attached to this.

We have reached a stage where our thinking has evolved way beyond our physical evolution. We rely on scientific fact for most things (to prove and disprove) and science dictates that there are two states (with, as Brian pointed out above, some exceptions such as hermaphrodites) and we are pretty much locked to that (unless we force a change through surgery, although genetically we would still be one or the other). We rely on two genetic types to procreate (discounting that we start industry level cloning) and regardless of what we believe this is scientific fact.

That said, people can identify however they want, it is our right to ignore the facts or the science (religion has been doing it long enough) and to live how they feel comfortable. We should not judge and we should not argue it just because we don't believe it.

My second however on this is that, as with all things, there needs to be checks and balances in place to prevent abuse.

All just the ramblings of a 40-something golfer on a forum. Take them only as opinion and not as fact.

 

[RichA]

Yeah you are.

I claim no expertise, but I'm reasonably confident that I know what words mean when I say or type them.
I'm also reasonably confident that medicine, science, the education system and the law have acknowledged that autism, dyslexia and non-heterosexuality are not mental illnesses for a few decades. Granted, there are a few bigoted nutters on the fringe who still believe otherwise, but they are gradually dying off.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

Is the danger now that these children are still being labelled and pigeonholed just with different labels? When I was growing up there were kids in school that were labelled as naughty little *****. Now they are labelled as having ADHD, learning difficulties etc. There may be far less stigma attached to these things now but they are still being labelled.

Now they are able to get help.
I dread to think how many thousands of autistic kids were just labelled as weird or a little s*1# and thrown on the scrapheap.

 

[Orikoru]

I can't say I fully understand everything about 'non-binary', but it doesn't cost me anything to try and understand it rather than just dismissing it as rubbish, and if someone wanting to be called 'they' makes them feel more comfortable in this world, then why not?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Yeah you are.

I claim no expertise, but I'm reasonably confident that I know what words mean when I say or type them.
I'm also reasonably confident that medicine, science, the education system and the law have acknowledged that autism, dyslexia and non-heterosexuality are not mental illnesses for a few decades. Granted, there are a few bigoted nutters on the fringe who still believe otherwise, but they are gradually dying off.

I’m glad RichA answered this as well as he did, because if you were somehow dismissing all these issues as no more than mental health problems, then it’s possibly the most ignorant post I’ve ever read on here.

 

[Fade and Die]

I claim no expertise, but I'm reasonably confident that I know what words mean when I say or type them.
I'm also reasonably confident that medicine, science, the education system and the law have acknowledged that autism, dyslexia and non-heterosexuality are not mental illnesses for a few decades. Granted, there are a few bigoted nutters on the fringe who still believe otherwise, but they are gradually dying off.

Not sure why you are drifting from Pronouns to mental illness and now homosexuality. (Probably so you can slip the word bigot in)
I believe there are two sexes. Male and female, now you can be straight, gay, Bi or anything in between but you will still be either a man or a woman.

 

[RichA]

Not sure why you are drifting from Pronouns to mental illness and now homosexuality. (Probably so you can slip the word bigot in)

Erm, I didn't drift anywhere. You inferred that the kids of our childhoods who were labelled as stupid, weird, effeminate, lazy or unteachable would get help nowadays for their mental illness.
I said that it wasn't mental illness.
You said that it was.

Unless you've edited what you posted, it seems pretty simple.

 

[hairball_89]

Not sure why you are drifting from Pronouns to mental illness and now homosexuality. (Probably so you can slip the word bigot in)
I believe there are two sexes. Male and female, now you can be straight, gay, Bi or anything in between but you will still be either a man or a woman.

You are confusing sex and gender. these are 2 different things. Sex is X and Y chromosomes. Gender is how you see yourself in this world. This is not new. There are Native American tribes who noted more than 10 different genders, the same for African tribes. Cis-male and Cis-female (identify as the gender aligned with your chromosomes) being the only genders is comparatively new.

As @Orikoru says - if using a changed pronoun makes somebody who is isolated and hugely wary of this world, which is an incredibly nasty place at times when you "don't fit", feel even slightly better, surely you would do it? Saying "they" not he/she isn't difficult.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Being blunt - I don’t really care tbh , I have no issues with people calling themselves whatever they want , their choice if they want to me man , woman , neither or a fish - it’s all down to personal freedoms of choice

 

[Sats]

Please don't judge me on this as those who know me know I am "of a certain age",

I just received an email from a well-known charity in response to my request for a digital copy of their logo to incorporate into the entry forms for a charity fundraising event at my club.

I was quite tickled to see a third line after the sender's name and job title. It read "Pronouns: she/her".

Funny enough I had a work email with that in the persons signature.

Can't say it bothers me, but until recently I've never had to think about it. Each to their own. Just let me know - I hate being the bad guy because I used the pronoun he/she when they don't identify that way, but don't have a go if I've not been informed about it and I've made a genuine honest mistake.

I might just for jokes put: Pronouns: King, ruler and emperor. My liege is also acceptable

 

[Fade and Die]

You are confusing sex and gender. these are 2 different things. Sex is X and Y chromosomes. Gender is how you see yourself in this world. This is not new. There are Native American tribes who noted more than 10 different genders, the same for African tribes. Cis-male and Cis-female (identify as the gender aligned with your chromosomes) being the only genders is comparatively new.

As @Orikoru says - if using a changed pronoun makes somebody who is isolated and hugely wary of this world, which is an incredibly nasty place at times when you "don't fit", feel even slightly better, surely you would do it? Saying "they" not he/she isn't difficult.

No if you re-read my post I was very clear. I didn’t mention gender. I specifically said sex. Of which there is just 2.