Prohibiting play from another hole's teebox

[cliveb]

I've tried looking at the model local rules on the R&A website but couldn't find an answer to this...

Is it permissible to have a local rule that states you must take relief from the tee boxes of other holes?
(Where by "tee box" I mean the entire closely-mown ground within which a teeing area can be located).

My club wants players to drop away from tee boxes during the winter to protect them.
My understanding is that a local rule cannot override a RoG, and that other teeing areas are just part of the general area.

Is the solution to this to declare that other teeing areas (or rather, the entire "tee boxes") are no-play zones (using E-8.1)?

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Cant they just be made no play zones or GUR?

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Cant they just be made no play zones or GUR?

We use winter tees during the winter so as you’ve suggested all our normal Tee’s are GUR during the period winter tees are in use.

 

[cliveb]

Cant they just be made no play zones or GUR?

I was wondering if they can be no-play zones, BUT...
We use the grass tees in winter. Can an area be defined as a no-play zone but only when it's not the teeing area of the hole you are playing?

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I was wondering if they can be no-play zones, BUT...
We use the grass tees in winter. Can an area be defined as a no-play zone but only when it's not the teeing area of the hole you are playing?

Stake and rope the areas you want left and mark as GUR?

 

[cliveb]

Stake and rope the areas you want left and mark as GUR?

I don't think you've quite understood. In order to prevent play from these tee boxes *when playing another hole*, they'd have to be mandatory GUR.
Then what happens when you come to that hole and want to tee off? Now it can't be mandatory GUR - you need to play from there.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I don't think you've quite understood. In order to prevent play from these tee boxes *when playing another hole*, they'd have to be mandatory GUR.
Then what happens when you come to that hole and want to tee off? Now it can't be mandatory GUR - you need to play from there.

Are you saying then you cant rope off any section of the course as GUR?
Surely thats all they have to do, just leave a small area available for teeing and hope no-one else has to play from that small area from adjacent holes?
At least the majority of the tee boxes would be saved and protected.

 

[jim8flog]

I've tried looking at the model local rules on the R&A website but couldn't find an answer to this...

Is it permissible to have a local rule that states you must take relief from the tee boxes of other holes?
(Where by "tee box" I mean the entire closely-mown ground within which a teeing area can be located).

My club wants players to drop away from tee boxes during the winter to protect them.
My understanding is that a local rule cannot override a RoG, and that other teeing areas are just part of the general area.

Is the solution to this to declare that other teeing areas (or rather, the entire "tee boxes") are no-play zones (using E-8.1)?

In the old decisions book (from memory) the R&A said no to a club having any rule of this nature.

 

[Colin L]

I don't see a problem in a Local Rule which makes any ground prepared for a teeing area other than on the hole you are playing GUR with mandatory relief. The teeing area of the hole you are playing already has its unique status after all. The Committee can make any area as GUR and define it in any way it wants as long as it is clear. You wouldn't need ropes or lines as the edges of teeing grounds are generally clear enough to define the edges of the GUR.

I can't remember a previous decision which would have contradicted that view, but with my memory that means nothing! I don't have time at the time moment to check if there is anything in the 2019 rules.

 

[cliveb]

Are you saying then you cant rope off any section of the course as GUR?
Surely thats all they have to do, just leave a small area available for teeing and hope no-one else has to play from that small area from adjacent holes?
At least the majority of the tee boxes would be saved and protected.

Think about what you're suggesting. How much space around the teeing area should be left unroped-off? People (both right- and left-handed) are entitled to take their stance outside the teeing area. Two club lengths back from the markers isn't exactly the same for everyone. You're going to have to leave enough room that the ropes don't get in the way. (Or of course you could just paint white lines).

But this is just a kludge solution, and you're hoping for the best that nobody's ball lands inside an actual teeing area. Definitely not what my club would like to do.

 

[cliveb]

I don't see a problem in a Local Rule which makes any ground prepared for a teeing area other than on the hole you are playing GUR with mandatory relief. The teeing area of the hole you are playing already has its unique status after all. The Committee can make any area as GUR and define it in any way it wants as long as it is clear. You wouldn't need ropes or lines as the edges of teeing grounds are generally clear enough to define the edges of the GUR.

I can't remember a previous decision which would have contradicted that view, but with my memory that means nothing! I don't have time at the time moment to check if there is anything in the 2019 rules.

Thanks Colin.
So are you saying that it's entirely allowed to state that a defined area is mandatory GUR when playing any hole other than a specified one?

 

[rulefan]

I've tried looking at the model local rules on the R&A website but couldn't find an answer to this...

Is it permissible to have a local rule that states you must take relief from the tee boxes of other holes?
(Where by "tee box" I mean the entire closely-mown ground within which a teeing area can be located).

Given that every player will be required to play from each 'tee box' at least once in every round, how much protection does the committee believe will be afforded in the very exceptional situation where a player ends up on the wrong 'tee box'?

I'm not convinced that an area can be deemed a NPZ when playing one hole but not another.
But the whole 'tee box', except the teeing area of all holes, could be deemed to be NPZs. This, of course, would mean that a duffed drive could not be played from just forward of the teeing area.

 

[cliveb]

Given that every player will be required to play from each 'tee box' at least once in every round, how much protection does the committee believe will be afforded in the very exceptional situation where a player ends up on the wrong 'tee box'?

I'm not convinced that an area can be deemed a NPZ when playing one hole but not another.
But the whole 'tee box', except the teeing area of all holes, could be deemed to be NPZs. This, of course, would mean that a duffed drive could not be played from just forward of the teeing area.

Regardless of how uncommon it may be that someone ends up there, it does happen and many members strongly believe they have to drop away in winter. (My course is quite tightly packed and many tee boxes are quite close to fairways and greens of other holes). Indeed my question was prompted by something that happened today. One of my FCs (playing in a qualifying stableford comp) was on a "wrong tee box" and another player came over to him and told him that he had to drop away. "It's a winter rule and has been like this for years". I said that I was sceptical whether such a rule was permissible in a qualifier - which has led to me asking about it here.

 

[Colin L]

Thanks Colin.
So are you saying that it's entirely allowed to state that a defined area is mandatory GUR when playing any hole other than a specified one?

No, I can't be that certain. I am not seeing a problem in it ... but others are. More thinking needed!

 

[rulie]

Thanks Colin.
So are you saying that it's entirely allowed to state that a defined area is mandatory GUR when playing any hole other than a specified one?

Does your national association have a number you can call to ask them?

 

[rulefan]

I have done just that. Awaiting response but am away for a few days

 

[jim8flog]

Regardless of how uncommon it may be that someone ends up there, it does happen and many members strongly believe they have to drop away in winter. (My course is quite tightly packed and many tee boxes are quite close to fairways and greens of other holes).


Indeed my question was prompted by something that happened today. One of my FCs (playing in a qualifying stableford comp) was on a "wrong tee box" and another player came over to him and told him that he had to drop away. "It's a winter rule and has been like this for years". I said that I was sceptical whether such a rule was permissible in a qualifier - which has led to me asking about it here.

It was for this very reason I have memory of it not being allowed.

I played a few courses about 30 years ago that had this rule and when I questioned why we do not have it I was told it was not an allowable rule and was pointed to the appropriate section.

The best advice is to get a member of the your clubs committee to email the R&A ( it can be done via their website) and ask them if it is an allowable rule and it that way you will get a definitive decision.

 

[Swango1980]

Did you actually look at your club Local Rules to see if it was actually a rule they have included? If so, then it is worth questioning whether it is an acceptable Local Rule (I can't see that it is, as I cannot find any reference in the Rules to say that you can have GUR / No Play Zone when playing one hole, but not when playing another hole?

However, you might find that the club have no such local rule at all, and that the golfer that said "it has been a local rule for years" is very much mistaken?

 

[RulesGuy]

I've tried looking at the model local rules on the R&A website but couldn't find an answer to this...

Is it permissible to have a local rule that states you must take relief from the tee boxes of other holes?
(Where by "tee box" I mean the entire closely-mown ground within which a teeing area can be located).

My club wants players to drop away from tee boxes during the winter to protect them.
My understanding is that a local rule cannot override a RoG, and that other teeing areas are just part of the general area.

Is the solution to this to declare that other teeing areas (or rather, the entire "tee boxes") are no-play zones (using E-8.1)?

Are you saying that the teeing areas are used for the hole in play but you want to prohibit playing off them when playing a different hole? So in a field of 100 the tees are used 100 times and you are wanting to prohibit a couple of tees being used 101 times. This is obviously illogical so I must have misunderstood .

 

[cliveb]

Are you saying that the teeing areas are used for the hole in play but you want to prohibit playing off them when playing a different hole? So in a field of 100 the tees are used 100 times and you are wanting to prohibit a couple of tees being used 101 times. This is obviously illogical so I must have misunderstood .

You have not misunderstood, and I agree that it is illogical.
It isn't me that wants to prevent it - it's the club that does, and I'm trying to establish whether they are even allowed to do so.