Premier League 2019-2020 we’re off

[Deleted member 16999]

You're harming you're own argument - Dele hasn't been on form for us for a while and has thus been dropped for England. If anything that backs up that Pickford should be dropped, not the other way round.

I don't think the result is relevant really. You end up winning the game in spite of Pickford - the team has made up for his mistakes by scoring additional goals. If a keeper keeps making basic errors it will cost you in the long run.

So back to what started it, when has Pickford cost England?
You’re the one making statements about him probably making a mistake in a group game and us going out.
40 games for Club and Country so far this season and 1 error in a game we won.

Same game he made a worldie, when 2-1 up, does that mean he saved us 2 points.

 

[Orikoru]

So back to what started it, when has Pickford cost England?
You’re the one making statements about him probably making a mistake in a group game and us going out.
40 games for Club and Country so far this season and 1 error in a game we won.

Going round in circles here. He has made multiple errors. Goalies making basic errors tends to cost you games. The Pickford who plays for England is not a different person to the one that plays for Everton. You only play about 15% as many games for your country so obviously the probability of one of his errors occurring then is lower.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Going round in circles here. He has made multiple errors. Goalies making basic errors tends to cost you games. The Pickford who plays for England is not a different person to the one that plays for Everton. You only play about 15% as many games for your country so obviously the probability of one of his errors occurring then is lower.

So in other words you realise you can’t back your argument up and go to try using stats, 1 howler for Everton this season, saved more points than he’s lost.
You’ve probably saw him once over 90 mins if you watched the Everton v Spurs game.

Henderson deserves a shout prior to the Euros based on being in better form than Pickford, that doesn’t mean Pickford is playing badly, it means Henderson is playing better.

 

[Orikoru]

So in other words you realise you can’t back your argument up and go to try using stats, 1 howler for Everton this season, saved more points than he’s lost.
You’ve probably saw him once over 90 mins if you watched the Everton v Spurs game.

Henderson deserves a shout prior to the Euros based on being in better form than Pickford, that doesn’t mean Pickford is playing badly, it means Henderson is playing better.

In addition to making multiple errors he has one of the lowest save percentages in the entire division, we covered that last week. So he's making errors and not making many saves, what is he doing right??

 

[Deleted member 16999]

In addition to making multiple errors he has one of the lowest save percentages in the entire division, we covered that last week. So he's making errors and not making many saves, what is he doing right??

Keep digging.

 

[Orikoru]

Keep digging.

Sorry, I realise your desperate desire to have an Everton player in the England team outstrips silly things like facts and figures. But personally I'd rather have the best players for the team playing.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Sorry, I realise your desperate desire to have an Everton player in the England team outstrips silly things like facts and figures. But personally I'd rather have the best players for the team playing.

?? How many times have I stated Henderson should be playing? ??
You just keep digging?

 

[Orikoru]

?? How many times have I stated Henderson should be playing? ??
You just keep digging?

Why am I digging? You're the one defending a shocking goalkeeper in the face of all logic and reason.

 

[Wolf]

Why am I digging? You're the one defending a shocking goalkeeper in the face of all logic and reason.

Except he's not shocking, you can bring out all the stats you want to suit your argument and others can bring out different stats to suit theres. You've also not given an example of all the horrors you've claimed pickford has had.

He has made more saves to keep Everton in games this season than he has made howlers. People could say the same for Loris at Spurs yet he's still a quality keeper and worthy international.

Henderson is in better form this season but that doesn't mean Pickford is having a bad one. Pope is having a great season as well but people moan he can't distribute like Pickford . End of day its what Southgate deems best for the team and that probably is Pickford based on understanding of players and experience. Bigger issue right now os how poor our Centre backs are and a highly likely unfit Harry Kane.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Why am I digging? You're the one defending a shocking goalkeeper in the face of all logic and reason.

Oh OK Statto.

 

[Orikoru]

Except he's not shocking, you can bring out all the stats you want to suit your argument and others can bring out different stats to suit theres. You've also not given an example of all the horrors you've claimed pickford has had.

He has made more saves to keep Everton in games this season than he has made howlers. People could say the same for Loris at Spurs yet he's still a quality keeper and worthy international.

Henderson is in better form this season but that doesn't mean Pickford is having a bad one. Pope is having a great season as well but people moan he can't distribute like Pickford . End of day its what Southgate deems best for the team and that probably is Pickford based on understanding of players and experience. Bigger issue right now os how poor our Centre backs are and a highly likely unfit Harry Kane.

I'm sorry I don't have a scrapbook of goalkeeper errors but we all remember them happening don't we? I know that Squawka keeps extensive stats on that but their comparison matrix is down at the minute.

I'm more confident at centre back now that Gomez has re-emerged actually. We're just screwed if he or Maguire get injured. I think central midfield is the biggest area of concern.

 

[Liverbirdie]

So in other words you realise you can’t back your argument up and go to try using stats, 1 howler for Everton this season, saved more points than he’s lost.
You’ve probably saw him once over 90 mins if you watched the Everton v Spurs game.

Henderson deserves a shout prior to the Euros based on being in better form than Pickford, that doesn’t mean Pickford is playing badly, it means Henderson is playing better.

Just so I get my presumption right, are we only talking the one at Sheff United being ahead of Pickford, or are we talking Jordan, also?

 

[AmandaJR]

This has to be a record "debate" with the absence of LP

 

[Kellfire]

This has to be a record "debate" with the absence of LP

I think we know where LP stands on Jordan Pickford.

 

[Wolf]

I'm sorry I don't have a scrapbook of goalkeeper errors but we all remember them happening don't we? I know that Squawka keeps extensive stats on that but their comparison matrix is down at the minute.

I'm more confident at centre back now that Gomez has re-emerged actually. We're just screwed if he or Maguire get injured. I think central midfield is the biggest area of concern.

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/error_lead_to_goal
There you go this seasons official stats by the Premier league themselves. When you filter it to GK only Pickford has made 2 errors leading to goals along with Leno, Loris, De Gea, Pope & Jimenez. That makes him equal to a host of keepers that are having good seasons and he spent a large part of the season pre January playing in a struggling team. If you then change the filter to saves he's made 64, whereas Henderson has made 66 but has also made 1 error. So hardly anything in it is there when you go by stats so Pickford as result should still be number 1 on experience alone..

If you want to choose best keeper by stats alone then the England keeper should be Ramsdale with 1 error & 93 saves.

But like I said before stats don't prove anything as they can be manipulated to suit any argument. Plus top Keepers sometimes make howlers as they put themselves in position to more often.

 

[clubchamp98]

The lads done nothing wrong in a England shirt and should not lose it just because someone’s stats look better.imo.

 

[Orikoru]

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/error_lead_to_goal
There you go this seasons official stats by the Premier league themselves. When you filter it to GK only Pickford has made 2 errors leading to goals along with Leno, Loris, De Gea, Pope & Jimenez. That makes him equal to a host of keepers that are having good seasons and he spent a large part of the season pre January playing in a struggling team. If you then change the filter to saves he's made 64, whereas Henderson has made 66 but has also made 1 error. So hardly anything in it is there when you go by stats so Pickford as result should still be number 1 on experience alone..

If you want to choose best keeper by stats alone then the England keeper should be Ramsdale with 1 error & 93 saves.

But like I said before stats don't prove anything as they can be manipulated to suit any argument. Plus top Keepers sometimes make howlers as they put themselves in position to more often.

Saves alone is a useless stat, Ramsdale plays in a team with zero defence. He must be facing shots galore. I have using shot to save ratios which at least give you a contextually accurate portrayal of how good they are at shot stopping.

The best stat I can find is here: https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/keepersadv/Premier-League-Stats



It's expected goals minus the number of goals let in, per 90 minutes, so it takes into account the number of shots faced and the quality of shots faced. As far as one single stat can be, I think that's as comprehensive as it can be. Pickford is in the bottom three, ironically Pope is down there with him so not doing as well as people seem to think. Henderson though is right up in 6th.

(Lloris is filtered out of the list because he hasn't played that many games.)

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Blimey - still about Pickford ?

Southgate is going to pick him because he hasn’t let England down , I think there are two better GK ahead of him but Southgate is a loyal manager and will stick with him - he will have Gomez in front of him which should help , just need to find him a quality partner

I also think Kane being out maybe the best thing for Southgate - pushes him to look at other players and not have everything focused towards Kane , also allows him to give the Armband to the guy who should be captain - Henderson ?

 

[Wolf]

Saves alone is a useless stat, Ramsdale plays in a team with zero defence. He must be facing shots galore. I have using shot to save ratios which at least give you a contextually accurate portrayal of how good they are at shot stopping.

The best stat I can find is here: https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/keepersadv/Premier-League-Stats



It's expected goals minus the number of goals let in, per 90 minutes, so it takes into account the number of shots faced and the quality of shots faced. As far as one single stat can be, I think that's as comprehensive as it can be. Pickford is in the bottom three, ironically Pope is down there with him so not doing as well as people seem to think. Henderson though is right up in 6th.

(Lloris is filtered out of the list because he hasn't played that many games.)

Again though you're proving my point that stats are a ridiculous way to decide who to play, because by that it shows Mccarthy should be England's keeper.

We can both keep finding different stats to suit different arguments that's why its not a wholly accurate way of selecting a squad of players.

Pickford is a good keeper and deserves his spot in England's team as No1, Henderson deserves to be in the squad also but wouldn't have hin starting tournament games yet, experience at that level is paramount and Pickford has it plus he has not ever let England down that will give his team mates far more confidence

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Expected goals!
Football isn’t played on computers!

Cheers @Wolf thanks for putting across the way you have.

Unfortunately me being an Everton fan my posts were interpreted incorrectly, despite me calling for Henderson to be given a chance and stating I’d be pleased if Ancelotti bought another keeper.

I thought that would of, at least, given my pov a chance.

Pickford is now marmite and no matter how good or bad he performs people won’t be swayed.
Won’t be long until the PL and all Football is played on a computer.