Premier League 2019-2020 we’re off

[pokerjoke]

Chelsea, Arsenal & Spurs only had 72,71 & 70 points last season, throw in Utd on 66 and that looks worse to me, the year before Chelsea was 70 and Arsenal 63, again potentially worse, so it looks like marginal improvements to me this season, its just that we, along with others, have not improved at the rate and degree that Liverpool & City have, in that 90+ points or very close to, becomes the baromoter to challenge.

In the last 5 years Utd other than 17/18 (81pts) have rarely got out of the 60's, Liverpool in the same period were initially low 60's, then mid 70's, now comfortably in the 90's, they have built and developed and the sliding scale of points in that period is testament to that, everyone else is up & down as they lose players or don't build around quality ones they have or address the weaknesses they have.

United are miles (years) away from being challengers, and as such, when their biggest and historic rivals are walking the league, its deemed to be the weakest 'in memory', whereas the reality is, they've moved the barometer, in back-to-back seasons, and I can see that being the case for a couple of seasons.

I personally think Pep will be gone at the end of this season, they'll get someone in and spend big and they'll be the force they were before, Chelsea will do similar but not on the same scale, but both will be challengers, again, but the divide between the top 2 or 3 will be come bigger within the top 4 to 6.

So, I think we'll match at least the same points we had last season, and with the constraints we had, I think is a fantastic acheivement, especially if we stay 4th. Spurs won't be far off the same poits also, along with Utd, Arsenal definitely will be 10 points shy, but then 70 points last year was nothing to shout about.

I think your looking to shift the achievents of Liverpool and how they've bulit themselves into the force they are today by declaring the PL is the weakest 'in your memory', when the facts are, that it isn't, everyone, almost, has stood still (not declined) whilst Liverpool has developed, I suppose thats tough for a Utd fan to accept!

Not at all I’ve praised Klopp
I’ve said VVD was the game changer
I’ve said Liverpool play great football and would be unbeaten at home.
Yes as a Utd supporter hard to take but certainly not worth worrying about.

 

[Fish]

Well you should of went back to the start where I said it first then and got the whole story.
Although since the start opinions have moved on and still no-one has proved me wrong.
This year the league is weaker and it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s the weakest ever.
Although as I keep saying Liverpool have been superb

I don't need to read back, I quoted a post of you saying 'in memory', it's irrelevant what you've said prior, I've responded to that specific quote, and as per my other post, and with the potential points still on offer, other than Arsenal, most of the other clubs you mentioned, being Chelsea Spurs and even Utd, will only be a point here and there different to last year, so if you want to revert to a previous quote of it being worse than only last year, and not in memory, then fine, at least 3 clubs will achieve the same points, so the PL is not weaker, they're still achieving the same points they usually do, its just Liverpool have not thrown any away.

 

[Liverbirdie]

I reckon next season (after your 1 season wonder) Chelsea will be the team to watch, I believe Lampard has great potential and if given a good chance, a couple of experienced signings to go with that squad and I can see them in amongst it for a good few years.

I wouldnt argue against it and I think next year could be a good 3 way fight for the title, as I doubt we will do as well next season, City will react by spending, as thats what they do, and I think Chelsea will be the 3rd strongest team, as their play is quite good, they just dont take enough of their chances, currently. Chelsea's squad also doesnt need a full overhaul, others do. 4th could be between the Utd, Leicester and Spurs, as I think Arsenal are the furthest away (players wise) from top 4. I could see Everton finishing above them next season.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

Written by a LPool fan who previously worked for Liverpool FC and The Anfield Wrap because of opposition fans “denigrating the scale of what Liverpool are achieving” also manages to give the Net spend a mention, but only over the last 5 years!

Most of those stats could be twisted to prove the opposite as well.

Seems to me LPool fans care more about the opinion of opposition fans than yous would like to admit.

Not here, I’m loving them all and embracing it.

It’s brilliant every week we’re boiling other fans piss, if it’s not VAR it’s drugs, if it’s not Mane diving it’s Klopp’s teeth??

But most of all on the pitch we’ve been fantastic, mentally strong and Jordan Henderson is almost certain to be Players Player of The Year??

 

[pokerjoke]

I don't need to read back, I quoted a post of you saying 'in memory', it's irrelevant what you've said prior, I've responded to that specific quote, and as per my other post, and with the potential points still on offer, other than Arsenal, most of the other clubs you mentioned, being Chelsea Spurs and even Utd, will only be a point here and there different to last year, so if you want to revert to a previous quote of it being worse than only last year, and not in memory, then fine, at least 3 clubs will achieve the same points, so the PL is not weaker, they're still achieving the same points they usually do, its just Liverpool have not thrown any away.

Once again welcome to your opinion but the same points doesn’t necessarily mean as strong.
As I pointed out the teams I mentioned are weaker and are others lower down.

 

[Fish]

Do you think City Utd Chelsea Spurs Arsenal are as good as last year playing wise regardless of points,I think so

You can't disregard points, you can play pretty attractive football, but not win, so you can't say they're all playing as good as last year as the points dictate the weaknesses, either in leaking goals or not scoring them.

We've punched well above our weight, we've played some great football, created unprecidented amount of chances, but not stuck them away, does that make us better than last season, no it doesn't, but if we had a Hazard (or Costa) amongst those kids, we'd be frightening! The same could be said of many of the other expected top 6. Liverpool were without only a couple of players and they've now plugged that gap, other teams haven't addressed their weakeness as well, and as such have carried over their weaknesses into this season, theres been changes in managers across the board with Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal & Utd, so next season will be more of an acid test as that excuse won't be relevant, City don't have that excuse, they've had stability, and its shite spouting about injuries like Tashy does, every club experiences them but with the squad City have, they have no excuses for this season, which is why I think Pep is done for.....

 

[TheDiablo]

The 'similar points total' discussion is an odd one. There's still the same amount of points available per game, it's not like you say 'well you won 1-0 but you were rubbish so we're taking the points away' - the average points total by position over the years will be largely the same year on year because of maths, regardless of the relative 'quality'. Take an extreme example where all clubs in the top half go on strike for a year and they promote a load from the Championship. The points distribution would likely look very similar to any individual Prem season, as it would with any random 20 team division in Europe.

The opposition to Liverpool this year are definitely weaker then recent years. Would like to hear any genuine alternative pov to the below

City - worst team in the Pep years, awful at the back, very little leadership on the field. Lost to bottom of the league. Its very, very hard to win 3 titles in a row no matter how good you are/were.
Chelsea - most inexperienced squad since Abramovich. Understandably struggling with consistency but some awful performances, especially at home
Spurs - worst side since before Poch - injuries, players wanting out, loss of form of key players
United - just gets worse and worse each year. A laughing stock
Arsenal - see 'United' and repeat.

The other side of the coin is that this has happened in a season where Liverpool have shown complete dominance, stunning unprecedented consistency at a very high level and would be worthy champions in any of the previous seasons. This side is a top 5 all time Prem team - anything regarding the strength of the league means diddly squat because this Liverpool team would still have been the best and deserving champions

Opposition fans always look to go talk down achievements, its nothing new, and it's no worse than you've dished out over the last 20+ years. Jealousy and envy is human nature, its just been a while since you've experienced the other side.

And anyway, if I was a Liverpool fan I wouldn't give a toss anyway. You've won, who cares about the rest or what they think? Celebrate it, you earned it and more than most know it isn't guaranteed to come again any time soon.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

Could there also be a case that the “lesser” teams (Burnley, Sheffield Utd, Wolves etc) are a lot better than they used to be?
Therefore getting more results against the supposed top 6 or 7 teams, and thus the best team wins by more points as they have kept on improving.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

The 'similar points total' discussion is an odd one. There's still the same amount of points available per game, it's not like you say 'well you won 1-0 but you were rubbish so we're taking the points away' - the average points total by position over the years will be largely the same year on year because of maths, regardless of the relative 'quality'. Take an extreme example where all clubs in the top half go on strike for a year and they promote a load from the Championship. The points distribution would likely look very similar to any individual Prem season, as it would with any random 20 team division in Europe.

The opposition to Liverpool this year are definitely weaker then recent years. Would like to hear any genuine alternative pov to the below

City - worst team in the Pep years, awful at the back, very little leadership on the field. Lost to bottom of the league. Its very, very hard to win 3 titles in a row no matter how good you are/were.
Chelsea - most inexperienced squad since Abramovich. Understandably struggling with consistency but some awful performances, especially at home
Spurs - worst side since before Poch - injuries, players wanting out, loss of form of key players
United - just gets worse and worse each year. A laughing stock
Arsenal - see 'United' and repeat.

The other side of the coin is that this has happened in a season where Liverpool have shown complete dominance, stunning unprecedented consistency at a very high level and would be worthy champions in any of the previous seasons. This side is a top 5 all time Prem team - anything regarding the strength of the league means diddly squat because this Liverpool team would still have been the best and deserving champions

Opposition fans always look to go talk down achievements, its nothing new, and it's no worse than you've dished out over the last 20+ years. Jealousy and envy is human nature, its just been a while since you've experienced the other side.

And anyway, if I was a Liverpool fan I wouldn't give a toss anyway. You've won, who cares about the rest or what they think? Celebrate it, you earned it and more than most know it isn't guaranteed to come again any time soon.

spot on.

I’m enjoying every minute of it and I’ll celebrate it properly when it’s mathematically done.

 

[Liverbirdie]

The similar points one is to just show how the challengers compare, but using a factual thing instead of a subjective opinion.

You've also fallen into the trap of using the so-called big 6 - why not Leicester? They were Champions a few years ago, you know. Wolves were great last season and if not for the Europa league usual "tax" of -6 points would be right in the mix, or should we only talk about the six "big" clubs?

Its also human nature to not want achievements detracted from - many United, Chelsea, City and Arsenal fans have done it over the last 10 years when they have achieved - its now our turn. Same situation just different teams.

 

[Orikoru]

After 25 games this season:

City, 51, +36
Chelsea, 41, +9
Spurs, 37, +8
Man U, 35, +7
Arsenal, 31, -2

25 games last season:

City, 59, +46
Chelsea, 50, +22
Spurs, 57, +27
Man U, 48, +14
Arsenal, 47, +15

How is anyone seriously arguing that the quality of all of these hasn't dropped!??

 

[Fish]

Could there also be a case that the “lesser” teams (Burnley, Sheffield Utd, Wolves etc) are a lot better than they used to be?
Therefore getting more results against the supposed top 6 or 7 teams, and thus the best team wins by more points as they have kept on improving.

Definitely, theres usually a rogue team that starts off well, takes points off those expected to be in the top 6, other than 1, then they slip away but the dead is done, then that 1 team goes on a run and the divide looks bigger each week.

Then factor those on the fringe like Wolves, Sheff Utd, Burnley on their travels stealing points as well, but that 1 team grinds out results, and the divide is bigger again.

We've thrown 15 points away against bottom dwellers at home alone, because even with 70% possesion, record amounts of shots on target, we didn't score and allowed them a single chance which they took then we lost the game, but to be brutally honest, even with factoring those points back in whch we've thrown away over and above those 15 at home, we'd be in 2nd place and still at least 10 points off the pace, I don't think we'll see the PL won with less than 90 points for some time, so we've all got a lot of work to do....

 

[Kellfire]

The same people who are taking much pleasure from the laughable form of Man Utd, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea (delete as applicable) are often the same people trying to claim that the challenge to win the league isn’t weaker than previous years.

Can’t have it both ways.

 

[Liverbirdie]

.....and some people cant read and disseminate what is actually being said properly.

Does it make the point any different???????

 

[Kellfire]

.....and some people cant read and diseminate what is actually being said properly.

Interesting use of the word diseminate(sic).

 

[pokerjoke]

.....and some people cant read and diseminate what is actually being said properly.

I know I feel for you though

 

[pokerjoke]

The same people who are taking much pleasure from the laughable form of Man Utd, Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea (delete as applicable) are often the same people trying to claim that the challenge to win the league isn’t weaker than previous years.

Can’t have it both ways.

Unfortunate they think they can

 

[TheDiablo]

The similar points one is to just show how the challengers compare, but using a factual thing instead of a subjective opinion.

You've also fallen into the trap of using the so-called big 6 - why not Leicester? They were Champions a few years ago, you know. Wolves were great last season and if not for the Europa league usual "tax" of -6 points would be right in the mix, or should we only talk about the six "big" clubs?

Its also human nature to not want achievements detracted from - many United, Chelsea, City and Arsenal fans have done it over the last 10 years when they have achieved - its now our turn. Same situation just different teams.

But the point is it doesn't show that at all. It's a mathematical principle that the distribution of points will remain close to average year on year regardless of the relative 'strength' of the league. So it neither proves or disproves your point, it isn't something that should be used as a 'factual' thing.

That others are in the top 6 only strengthens the argument imo. Leicester have had a good season but have been mid table for a couple of years and capitalised well on the failings of others.

For Wolves, read Everton, Villa, Bolton, Leeds teams of the past (and many more). There's always a couple of decent mid table sides that have good years and push into the top 5/6, their season isn't anything new.

I still don't really understand why you care what others think/say about your success, but it's fine that you do ??

 

[Deleted member 16999]

So it’s agreed then, poor season, best forgotten.

 

[Deleted member 1740]

So it’s agreed then, poor season, best forgotten.

Yeah something like that..........


As if I'm letting you forget ??