harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
Can I chuck my 10 pence in ... ?
I think UTD have sacked a few managers and I think they came with credible records, but what has been consistent has been the methodology of buying players. I think Ferguson suffered toward the end of his tenure and realistically they out performed themselves in those last few seasons.
What worries me is this business model where you have a separate buying team who buy in players that they think meet the requirements, the manager used to have final say on these matters and at clubs where the manager does are they not having a better run of form.
Oh yeah and Pogba should go, they need 3 aggressive defensive midfielders like Ince, Keane etc .. they would allow the players to play and they do have those players already. I would also argue and I am showing my age now that they need a Cantona like player I am sure he turned around that UTD side, which was good but he added magic and gave the youngsters confidence that magic was acceptable.
I think UTD have sacked a few managers and I think they came with credible records, but what has been consistent has been the methodology of buying players. I think Ferguson suffered toward the end of his tenure and realistically they out performed themselves in those last few seasons.
What worries me is this business model where you have a separate buying team who buy in players that they think meet the requirements, the manager used to have final say on these matters and at clubs where the manager does are they not having a better run of form.
Oh yeah and Pogba should go, they need 3 aggressive defensive midfielders like Ince, Keane etc .. they would allow the players to play and they do have those players already. I would also argue and I am showing my age now that they need a Cantona like player I am sure he turned around that UTD side, which was good but he added magic and gave the youngsters confidence that magic was acceptable.
Liverbirdie
Ryder Cup Winner
Oh, so now the sky expert says it, its a fact now?
VAR
Injuries
Luck
Refs
Worst league ever
Any I've missed?
Can you do me a favour and give me the above in a 1-5 of what reason we (may) win it ,as having the most effect?
I'll then do:-
Character and playing to the last minute
Best defence, one of the best attacks, good midfield
Actually winning 95% of our matches against top,middle or bottom sides
Great manager who motivates, rotates and is tactically astute
VAR
I don’t think that ‘asterisk’ will mean anything IF they go unbeaten or emulate last season in only losing once, that alone shows they’re consistent whereas others are in a situation of rebuilding teams and squads and mainly with new managers, other than City, who unlike all the other expected challengers, don’t really have a valid excuse for being as poor as they have been.
Next season will be a truer acid test, in that they’ll be champions and expectations will be high, if not higher, to maintain what they’ve achieved over these last 2 seasons, but all the usual challengers should be more settled with new players and managers and they should all push them.
But if they go unbeaten or only lose once in a season, again, then we’re all off the pace for possibly a few years, nothing to do with being poor, just look at the points that have won leagues in the past or secured 4th, it’s simply a new barometer being set.
Nobody could see past City again pre season, and look what has happened there.......
harpo_72
Journeyman Pro
Klopp is an awesome manager .. say what you like but his man management skills are there to see.Oh, so now the sky expert says it, its a fact now?
VAR
Injuries
Luck
Refs
Worst league ever
Any I've missed?
Can you do me a favour and give me the above in a 1-5 of what reason we (may) win it ,as having the most effect?
I'll then do:-
Character and playing to the last minute
Best defence, one of the best attacks, good midfield
Actually winning 95% of our matches against top,middle or bottom sides
Great manager who motivates, rotates and is tactically astute
VAR
I would love to know how much input he has to the buying strategies, I suspect he controls it and that only seems right as he has a tactical system and knows the fit required.
Firmino is amazing .. felt like a slow burn but last season and now we are seeing it and Mane as well .. I hope they have some guys in the back pocket and I hope they are English.
The defensive frailties were accurately addressed and that has been a major impact to their season .. hence it's the buying strategy that is key.
D
Deleted member 1740
Guest
Spot on
pokerjoke
Money List Winner
Oh, so now the sky expert says it, its a fact now?
VAR
Injuries
Luck
Refs
Worst league ever
Any I've missed?
Can you do me a favour and give me the above in a 1-5 of what reason we (may) win it ,as having the most effect?
I'll then do:-
Character and playing to the last minute
Best defence, one of the best attacks, good midfield
Actually winning 95% of our matches against top,middle or bottom sides
Great manager who motivates, rotates and is tactically astute
VAR
Well there was me thinking you were clever one.
I’ve never mentioned 1-4 only 5
There’s no doubt Liverpool are the best team by a street however all the other potential top 6 have got worse apart from Leicester you would have to be blind not to see that.
The league is weak as pee.
I’ve always praised Klopp for what he’s done,anyone who makes Henderson look good deserves all the praise.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Last season when two teams were 20 plus points ahead of everyone it wasOh, so now the sky expert says it, its a fact now?
VAR
Injuries
Luck
Refs
Worst league ever
Any I've missed?
Can you do me a favour and give me the above in a 1-5 of what reason we (may) win it ,as having the most effect?
I'll then do:-
Character and playing to the last minute
Best defence, one of the best attacks, good midfield
Actually winning 95% of our matches against top,middle or bottom sides
Great manager who motivates, rotates and is tactically astute
VAR
City - greatest team the Prem has seen , playing the best football the Prem has seen
Liverpool - bottled the league
All the other top teams just couldn’t keep up with the top 2
This season the same two teams at the top but one has created a gap it’s now
Weakest league ever , teams going through transitions etc etc
Over the last 5 years teams have been spending out of their pockets , swapping managers etc etc record spends for the best players yet the league is suddenly the weakest
I guess it’s easier to laugh at the change in attitudes but I’m sure if we looked back through the 90’s and some of those league season could be classed as weak seasons
Klopp and his team plus the team above have all done an amazing job - the attitude and spirit is just brilliant and they work so hard and just keep going and going - no arrogance about it all and it’s enjoyable to watch
It took Klopp 18 months. Nowadays it appears management appointments are more important than players.
With Ole, I don't see them ever getting back.
4LEX
Well-known member
This is a really bad season in terms of quality of the top sides, it has to be said.
Chelsea are rebuilding with a young team and novice manager. Spurs are suffering for not signing players in the previous years, failing to sort contracts out and changing managers. Arsenal are a trainwreck and have a total novice in charge. Man Utd have a proven failure of a manager in charge and a CEO who can't sign players even with the biggest budget in the world. All four will have their lowest points tally in years at the end of the season. Leicester are a well run club with a good side and manager but they'd be blown away by any top side, just like they were by City and Liverpool lately.
You can't take anything away from Liverpool because City are an amazing side and Liverpool's points total is actually laughably good. I just think the way City have crumbled in certain games despite playing really well has made this season almost too easy for Liverpool. The title is 99% sorted and it's January. After waiting so long I don't even think the most ardent Liverpool fan expected it to be this easy! Totally deserved and a class apart from the average Chelsea side of 09/10, United 10/11, City 11/12 and United 12/13.
As for Man Utd......it was good to see Ed Woodward being targeted last night. He's the man responsible for this mess 100%. The Glazers have pulled off a business masterplan and no one can touch them. While they're using the club to service/pay off the leveraged debt they've still invested massive amounts in wages and transfer fees. The man charged with spending it has frittered almost all of it. The second biggest wage bill in the world, a transfer spend of £750m odd since 2013 and the results are abysmal. Since then they've only finished in the Top 4 twice. The bottom line is Ole isn't a very good manager and Woodward isn't fit for the job. If both remain in place failure is guarenteed. In the summer he lost Lukaku, Herrara, and Sanchez and failed to replace any of them. In this window he's embarrassed himself over the Fernandes move. Man Utd talk about building for the future but if that's the case why haven't they signed Sancho who is unsettled or snapped up Haaland who was available from a small club for £20m? For £120m you'd then have a world class front three of Rashford, Haaland and Sancho with an average age of 21 and their best years ahead of them.
Chelsea are rebuilding with a young team and novice manager. Spurs are suffering for not signing players in the previous years, failing to sort contracts out and changing managers. Arsenal are a trainwreck and have a total novice in charge. Man Utd have a proven failure of a manager in charge and a CEO who can't sign players even with the biggest budget in the world. All four will have their lowest points tally in years at the end of the season. Leicester are a well run club with a good side and manager but they'd be blown away by any top side, just like they were by City and Liverpool lately.
You can't take anything away from Liverpool because City are an amazing side and Liverpool's points total is actually laughably good. I just think the way City have crumbled in certain games despite playing really well has made this season almost too easy for Liverpool. The title is 99% sorted and it's January. After waiting so long I don't even think the most ardent Liverpool fan expected it to be this easy! Totally deserved and a class apart from the average Chelsea side of 09/10, United 10/11, City 11/12 and United 12/13.
As for Man Utd......it was good to see Ed Woodward being targeted last night. He's the man responsible for this mess 100%. The Glazers have pulled off a business masterplan and no one can touch them. While they're using the club to service/pay off the leveraged debt they've still invested massive amounts in wages and transfer fees. The man charged with spending it has frittered almost all of it. The second biggest wage bill in the world, a transfer spend of £750m odd since 2013 and the results are abysmal. Since then they've only finished in the Top 4 twice. The bottom line is Ole isn't a very good manager and Woodward isn't fit for the job. If both remain in place failure is guarenteed. In the summer he lost Lukaku, Herrara, and Sanchez and failed to replace any of them. In this window he's embarrassed himself over the Fernandes move. Man Utd talk about building for the future but if that's the case why haven't they signed Sancho who is unsettled or snapped up Haaland who was available from a small club for £20m? For £120m you'd then have a world class front three of Rashford, Haaland and Sancho with an average age of 21 and their best years ahead of them.
pokerjoke
Money List Winner
Some very good points all pointing to the weakest league for years allowing a very good Liverpool team to win by miles.
Case closed
D
Deleted member 1740
Guest
?? touched a nerve there slimey old boy??
Come on it's only a bit of light heated fun, nothing personal.
D
Deleted member 1418
Guest
Is that the 'average' Chelsea side that won the double in 09/10 and also broke a number of PL records? 103 goals that season, 68 goals at home and a goal difference of +71. Yep went to a lot of Chelsea games that season and always came away thinking how 'average' we were!!!
Oh, so now the sky expert says it, its a fact now?
VAR
Injuries
Luck
Refs
Worst league ever
Any I've missed?
Can you do me a favour and give me the above in a 1-5 of what reason we (may) win it ,as having the most effect?
I'll then do:-
Character and playing to the last minute
Best defence, one of the best attacks, good midfield
Actually winning 95% of our matches against top,middle or bottom sides
Great manager who motivates, rotates and is tactically astute
VAR
I don’t think any of those above have contributed to you actually winning the league (when it happens). You are by far and away the best team in the league, and like you’ve shown. You’re winning your games irrespective of the level of the opponent. I do think though that the calibration of the opposition is lower though. Going by the last half a dozen seasons, there has never been a gap so large from first to 4th, or a gap so small from 4th to 18th. That still Doesn’t take anything away from your lot as I think you’ve shown over two seasons that you’d contend with any previous champions.
From your list of positives, I’d say the biggest factor is his motivational tactics, and that you now have the thing UTd always had, belief that the result will come, be that an early goal and hammering a team like at the start of the season, or more ground out victories from the last few weeks. I’d say the next two are massively less of a factor. I mean, we’ve been told by some fans you’ve got a tiny squad with loads of injuries, so not sure he can really rotate too much. As can be seen by the minutes played by first teamers. I also don’t really recall your tactics changing game by game. You have a formula that works and generally stick to that. I mean that is great belief by Klopp and has been vindicated by the results, but I’d say it shows he has a great philosophy more than tactical Nous as such.
Re all the “banter”, Liverpool and UTD are by far and away the biggest two teams in England. Any fan of those teams should realise that when they are either successful or struggling more people will be envious/taking pleasure from it. Atm it’s Liverpools turn at the top so they get to make fun but also need to suck up the jealousy heading their way. UTD fans, remember how much you took pleasure from knocking Liverpool off their perch? Nowt lasts forever.
D
Deleted member 1740
Guest
Biggest improvement has been the mentality of the team. Their mentality is on another level and looks bomb proof at the minute.
Junior
Tour Winner
Just a couple of comments re the crowd and fans last night. The Stretford end were immense, didnt stop from start to finish !!!! Chatting to some Burnley fans in the boozer after the game and they said that Utd have the best away support they have seen at Turf Moor. Singing from start to finish.
Sure the prawn sandwich brigade left 5 minutes early (when the pictures were taken) but in the main, the frustration is the lack of signings. How can we not sign a striker when Rashfords been playing with a stress fracture ? Our squad is weak. Pereira, James and Martial are not going to win us any trophies as a front 3. Especially with Lingaard as a back up.
Sure the prawn sandwich brigade left 5 minutes early (when the pictures were taken) but in the main, the frustration is the lack of signings. How can we not sign a striker when Rashfords been playing with a stress fracture ? Our squad is weak. Pereira, James and Martial are not going to win us any trophies as a front 3. Especially with Lingaard as a back up.
pokerjoke
Money List Winner
Has Rashford been playing with a stress fracture?
Ole said he hasnt
As Ole also pointed out he has a fantastic medical team.
Unless the truth is known it’s all speculation
Liverbirdie
Ryder Cup Winner
Sounds better than "some guy off sky said".
Some good points, but also one of perspective.
Just because some of the traditional top clubs (and City and Chelsea)
are struggling, doesnt mean that the whole league is, or English football is. Outside of Liverpool, and as Ive said before maybe the likes of Sheff Utd, Wolves, Palace, West Ham (early on), Soton (now) have got better,so making the league MORE competitive. Just because Liverpool have beaten all and sundry doesnt mean the league is less competitive, but just that the title race is less competitive, because off our one in a hundred year form (so far).Isnt this the league that supplied both of last year's CL finalists, Europa league finalists. United knocked PSG out and got to the quarters, City also did before getting knocked out by another English club?
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
That seems from the outside to be very poor weak management - the same with the Pogba injuries issue and going to his own “people”
I’m not sure why Lukaku wasn’t replaced and again why no striker now - James is a good player but needs time to develop , Pereira just doesn’t seem good enough and Martial despite all the talent doesn’t seem to want it.
Spending so much money in the summer without a striker shows a lack of thinking and even now.
Junior
Tour Winner
I think haaland was the one they had lined up but Raiola scuppered that. His deal with Dortmund is crazy good. If they sell him Railoa gets anything over €20m. Even so, the lack of thinking and preparation is worrying. Albeit all we get is the paper talk.
