Premier League 2019-2020 we’re off

[clubchamp98]

That’s were I think we differ, its not tolerated, it’s expected!
Every single sport has this element, whether it’s cheating/gamesmanship or some other terminology.
Rules and boundaries are pushed and there are times it goes undetected, always has done, always will be.

Yes I agree with you but it’s been tolerated over the years to the state where it is expected.
I know I am in a minority .

 

[4LEX]

Who cares anyway, it was Morata. The only thing he would've hit was Row Z or the corner flag!

 

[Slime]

Whenever a sporting match happens a rule is broken somewhere - rugby , football , golf , etc etc - both deliberately and accidental - it doesn’t mean it’s cheating

Do you really think someone deliberately handling a ball is cheating ? Tripping a player etc etc

Taking drugs is cheating , trying to bribe a ref is cheating etc

Yes, of course that's cheating.

Very much in the minority - admirable but just doesn’t happen in many sports these days and let’s be honest for decades

It’s a professional foul and every single manager plus 99.999% of fans would want the player to do it to help the team win - it’s not “cheating” , it’s committing a professional foul

No, Phil, it's cheating.

In my book, deliberately breaking a rule in order to gain an unfair advantage is cheating ....................... not professionalism!

 

[Captainron]

Very much in the minority - admirable but just doesn’t happen in many sports these days and let’s be honest for decades

It’s a professional foul and every single manager plus 99.999% of fans would want the player to do it to help the team win - it’s not “cheating” , it’s committing a professional foul

Absolute rubbish! This view of breaking the laws is just as dishonest as those that commit the fouls.

I’d be straight red and a 5 game ban for a so called “professional foul” and if it prevented a goal scoring chance then give a penalty goal.

that would soon smarten up these players.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Yes, of course that's cheating.




No, Phil, it's cheating.

In my book, deliberately breaking a rule in order to gain an unfair advantage is cheating ....................... not professionalism!

Team ends up being “disadvantaged” because the player ends up being sent off - a professional foul stops the team trying to win , a foul is in the rules and the subsequent punishments within the rules.

There is clear separation between players committing fouls either deliberately or not and sports teams and players “cheating” - drugs , bribery, poaching etc that’s cheating

Fouls are just part of the sport and have been since the day it started

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Absolute rubbish! This view of breaking the laws is just as dishonest as those that commit the fouls.

I’d be straight red and a 5 game ban for a so called “professional foul” and if it prevented a goal scoring chance then give a penalty goal.

that would soon smarten up these players.

How does a 5 game ban benefit the team the offence has been committed against?

Look at the incident that raised this discussion, Final of the Spanish Super Cup (A nothing match played in Saudi Arabia. Equivalent of our Charity Shield) Real Madrid v Athletico Madrid, RM player commits a foul in the last minute and gets a red card. AM do nothing with resultant free kick.
RM then win Cup on penalties.
RM got approx €12million for winning the comp.

How do AM benefit from the 5 game ban?

 

[Captainron]

How does a 5 game ban benefit the team the offence has been committed against?

Look at the incident that raised this discussion, Final of the Spanish Super Cup (A nothing match played in Saudi Arabia. Equivalent of our Charity Shield) Real Madrid v Athletico Madrid, RM player commits a foul in the last minute and gets a red card. AM do nothing with resultant free kick.
RM then win Cup on penalties.
RM got approx €12million for winning the comp.

How do AM benefit from the 5 game ban?

You have to start somewhere and making the punishment severe is a deterrent. I also said that should it stop a clear scoring chance that a penalty goal be awarded.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

You have to start somewhere and making the punishment severe is a deterrent. I also said that should it stop a clear scoring chance that a penalty goal be awarded.

I accept if the authorities wanted to stop it they’d have to start somewhere, but I don’t believe they do.

It’s only some fans who have an issue with it, most players and other fans see it as part of the game.

The rewards are too big, plus as others have stated, every team does it and would expect their player to do exactly the same thing if the role was reversed.

 

[Captainron]

I accept if the authorities wanted to stop it they’d have to start somewhere, but I don’t believe they do.

It’s only some fans who have an issue with it, most players and other fans see it as part of the game.

The rewards are too big, plus as others have stated, every team does it and would expect their player to do exactly the same thing if the role was reversed.

So nothing will be done because the game is inherently dishonest.

It's sad that football will not do something about that stigma/reputation. And this is why I absolutely hate my son playing football. Teaches gains by manipulation and dishonestly.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

So nothing will be done because the game is inherently dishonest.

It's sad that football will not do something about that stigma/reputation. And this is why I absolutely hate my son playing football. Teaches gains by manipulation and dishonestly.

It’s no different in Rugby or Cricket, Rugby for years allowed physical assault on each other and classed it as a man’s sport, Cricket had bowlers bowling at the man etc.

It seems in other Sports it is looked at as “part of the game” but in Football it’s manipulation and dishonesty.

 

[pokerjoke]

So nothing will be done because the game is inherently dishonest.

It's sad that football will not do something about that stigma/reputation. And this is why I absolutely hate my son playing football. Teaches gains by manipulation and dishonestly.

It’s sad isn’t it the way football is going.
I am a coach for U13 s football I’m old school by the way firm but fair.
We have 2 boys currently that play for Yeovil boys.
One of them has taken to cheating basically taking a dive or leaving his leg in.
Not on my watch sonny,I hate it.
Don’t know wether he’s been taught it or watching the P/L I suspect the latter and I hope the latter also.

 

[Slime]

Team ends up being “disadvantaged” because the player ends up being sent off - a professional foul stops the team trying to win , a foul is in the rules and the subsequent punishments within the rules.

There is clear separation between players committing fouls either deliberately or not and sports teams and players “cheating” - drugs , bribery, poaching etc that’s cheating

Fouls are just part of the sport and have been since the day it started

Yes they are, but a deliberate foul is still cheating, no matter how you dress it up.


Cheat.
verb
gerund or present participle: cheating
1. Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.

 

[Captainron]

It’s no different in Rugby or Cricket, Rugby for years allowed physical assault on each other and classed it as a man’s sport, Cricket had bowlers bowling at the man etc.

It seems in other Sports it is looked at as “part of the game” but in Football it’s manipulation and dishonesty.

Incorrect. Rugby and cricket both have upped their moral codes and have clear boundaries and sanctions on those. They also happen to have retrospective action which can be applied when players breach those codes.

Face it. Football is lagging well behind in the morality stakes.

And as @pokerjoke has also pointed out, it’s crept into kids play. I see it when my lad plays. Hand up for a throw in when it’s not theirs. Shouting at the ref when a decision goes against them. Diving etc. It really really bugs me. I have pulled him from a game once for shouting “ref, ref, ref” when he got “fouled” as he saw it. He has never done it since. He did ask why he couldn’t do it when everyone else could? I asked him if he could have done that in a rugby game. No was the answer and he apologised for cheating.

So what is the difference between the games?

Respect and integrity are my answers.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Incorrect. Rugby and cricket both have upped their moral codes and have clear boundaries and sanctions on those. They also happen to have retrospective action which can be applied when players breach those codes.

Face it. Football is lagging well behind in the morality stakes.

And as @pokerjoke has also pointed out, it’s crept into kids play. I see it when my lad plays. Hand up for a throw in when it’s not theirs. Shouting at the ref when a decision goes against them. Diving etc. It really really bugs me. I have pulled him from a game once for shouting “ref, ref, ref” when he got “fouled” as he saw it. He has never done it since. He did ask why he couldn’t do it when everyone else could? I asked him if he could have done that in a rugby game. No was the answer and he apologised for cheating.

So what is the difference between the games?

Respect and integrity are my answers.

I’m not sure many sports can use a moral standpoint -

Rugby - just look at Saracens ? And they have plenty of incidents within the games to try and find a way to win - certainly lots of things go on in the scrums

Cricket - sorry but match fixing , ball tampering , false appeals etc etc

And football have clear boundaries and sanctions for rule breaks do they not ? Diving is punished , professional fouls are punished etc etc

Football may have issues with the one the players talk to the officials but the other sports are no better when it comes to the players doing whatever they can to win.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Incorrect. Rugby and cricket both have upped their moral codes and have clear boundaries and sanctions on those. They also happen to have retrospective action which can be applied when players breach those codes.

Face it. Football is lagging well behind in the morality stakes.

And as @pokerjoke has also pointed out, it’s crept into kids play. I see it when my lad plays. Hand up for a throw in when it’s not theirs. Shouting at the ref when a decision goes against them. Diving etc. It really really bugs me. I have pulled him from a game once for shouting “ref, ref, ref” when he got “fouled” as he saw it. He has never done it since. He did ask why he couldn’t do it when everyone else could? I asked him if he could have done that in a rugby game. No was the answer and he apologised for cheating.

So what is the difference between the games?

Respect and integrity are my answers.

Sorry mate, probably like you I’ve played all sorts of Sports over the years and dodgy tactics get employed in all of them.

Remember “Bloodgate”? Rugby likes to play the respect and integrity card, but still has a far higher number of convictions for drug abuse than football.

 

[Dando]

I’m not sure many sports can use a moral standpoint -

Rugby - just look at Saracens ? And they have plenty of incidents within the games to try and find a way to win - certainly lots of things go on in the scrums

Cricket - sorry but match fixing , ball tampering , false appeals etc etc

And football have clear boundaries and sanctions for rule breaks do they not ? Diving is punished , professional fouls are punished etc etc

Football may have issues with the one the players talk to the officials but the other sports are no better when it comes to the players doing whatever they can to win.

Phil, please tell us exactly how saracens cheated on the pitch to win games?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Phil, please tell us exactly how saracens cheated on the pitch to win games?

Well first - they have cheated off the pitch , and anytime a Saracen player deliberately breaks a rule of Rugby on the pitch by the definition people are using they are cheating - not rolling away , not releasing , offside , collapsing a scrum - is that not the same as footballers deliberately breaking a rule during a game

 

[Dando]

Well first - they have cheated off the pitch , and anytime a Saracen player deliberately breaks a rule of Rugby on the pitch by the definition people are using they are cheating - not rolling away , not releasing , offside , collapsing a scrum - is that not the same as footballers deliberately breaking a rule during a game

The off the pitch issues were down to “image rights” and “other non rugby payments” which isn’t cheating. it’s just that the owner of saracens was paying personally and the other clubs who didn’t have a rich benefactor didn’t like it!
All rugby clubs have players who step over the line when playing

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The off the pitch issues were down to “image rights” and “other non rugby payments” which isn’t cheating. it’s just that the owner of saracens was paying personally and the other clubs who didn’t have a rich benefactor didn’t like it!
All rugby clubs have players who step over the line when playing

So just like football then ?

And Saracens tried to get around the salary cap to enable the club to get some of the best players in the game playing for them - it’s financial cheating in the same way football teams have tried to get around ffp

 

[fundy]

The off the pitch issues were down to “image rights” and “other non rugby payments” which isn’t cheating. it’s just that the owner of saracens was paying personally and the other clubs who didn’t have a rich benefactor didn’t like it!
All rugby clubs have players who step over the line when playing

think its a bit bigger than that sadly all coming out in the wash in the next few days it seems