D
Deleted member 1740
Guest
They're part of the problem, but not the only reason we have poor refs.
They're part of the problem, but not the only reason we have poor refs.
Pin-seeker
Well-known member
Spot on.
Managers & fans don’t seem to mind when their players are constantly trying to con the ref,but soon get the hump when a ref makes a dodgy decision against them.
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
Can you honestly blame Taylor for that last night?
Surely what we need in any sport is honest officials and ones willing to make decisions, he got one look from one angle at one time and called handball, as that’s what he believed he saw.
I also agree last night he’d of got the Lallana one wrong, but no official, technology, system will ever be perfect and unfortunately because of the pressure from everywhere in Football (from the top down) and the constant berating of officials VAR has now come in.
Maybe we’d of been better off accepting humans make mistakes and living with it.
Liverbirdie
Ryder Cup Winner
1. You hear the communication between the ref and video ref so we all know what’s going on.
I'd agree to a trial, as footy fans are a bit more reactionary than other sports (riots, pitch invasions, death threats to officials etc). It could also show up refereeing "bias" by how they ask the questions to the VAR official - for the same decision he can ask it in different ways by the type of question he asksand whether a direct or indirect question - Is there a reason for me to disallow this goal / did the defender make contact with the attacker / was there enough contact by the defender to consider it foul play etc......
2. Offside - there needs to be a tolerance, a “refs/linesman” call for example where is that tight they go with the call made on the pitch - they also don’t show the lines to everyone as it confuses the matter.
We will moan about whether someone is 4 inches of 5 inches offside then, your just moving the lines but using them in the same manner, then.
3. Maybe go to a “clear daylight” rule - only offside if there is clear daylight between the defender and attacker.
Totally disagree, and again, how do you measure it - in inches or in lux? What about night games?
4. Handball - if it hits the handball it’s a foul - accident or not.
Absolutely against this. So basically your are sanctioning poor wingers and full backs to just blast the ball at the first defenders arms, just 2 yards away. Why bother trying to put in a great, arcing, spinning, cross into a 2 yard area in between 2 centre halves and right on the head of yor striker, when you can just blast it as a defender 2 yards away. Daft.
Go back to what we had about 5 years ago, whereby its deliberate only or if you are deliberately trying to block it with your arms.
I do believe in attackers getting a slight benefit, and I think a good option would be for VAR to still check "the lines", but the part of the body that is only designated to be offside is the part of your body that you either score with or your first touch is with. So if your armpit/head/shoulder is offside but you score with your foot its okay, same the other way around, if yor foot is offside, but you head it in, your okay. In general play it would be the same with the "assister", if his head is offside, but his first touch is with his foot then he crosses it in, he's fine.
It gives a slight advantage, but is also measurable, and should mainly be a matter of "fact".
I think we need to run with it for the remainder of the season, then managers, players, refs and most importantly fans have a say.
Season ticket holders and official club members can vote on certain parts of it also, and not just "herberts" on the sky news app having their say. Not a dig, but its a different beast for fans at the game compared to viewers, so if 70-80% of regular match goers get a say, as yet again the fans dont have any power in the game, and their views are rarely sought.
I'd agree to a trial, as footy fans are a bit more reactionary than other sports (riots, pitch invasions, death threats to officials etc). It could also show up refereeing "bias" by how they ask the questions to the VAR official - for the same decision he can ask it in different ways by the type of question he asksand whether a direct or indirect question - Is there a reason for me to disallow this goal / did the defender make contact with the attacker / was there enough contact by the defender to consider it foul play etc......
2. Offside - there needs to be a tolerance, a “refs/linesman” call for example where is that tight they go with the call made on the pitch - they also don’t show the lines to everyone as it confuses the matter.
We will moan about whether someone is 4 inches of 5 inches offside then, your just moving the lines but using them in the same manner, then.
3. Maybe go to a “clear daylight” rule - only offside if there is clear daylight between the defender and attacker.
Totally disagree, and again, how do you measure it - in inches or in lux? What about night games?
4. Handball - if it hits the handball it’s a foul - accident or not.
Absolutely against this. So basically your are sanctioning poor wingers and full backs to just blast the ball at the first defenders arms, just 2 yards away. Why bother trying to put in a great, arcing, spinning, cross into a 2 yard area in between 2 centre halves and right on the head of yor striker, when you can just blast it as a defender 2 yards away. Daft.
Go back to what we had about 5 years ago, whereby its deliberate only or if you are deliberately trying to block it with your arms.
I do believe in attackers getting a slight benefit, and I think a good option would be for VAR to still check "the lines", but the part of the body that is only designated to be offside is the part of your body that you either score with or your first touch is with. So if your armpit/head/shoulder is offside but you score with your foot its okay, same the other way around, if yor foot is offside, but you head it in, your okay. In general play it would be the same with the "assister", if his head is offside, but his first touch is with his foot then he crosses it in, he's fine.
It gives a slight advantage, but is also measurable, and should mainly be a matter of "fact".
I think we need to run with it for the remainder of the season, then managers, players, refs and most importantly fans have a say.
Season ticket holders and official club members can vote on certain parts of it also, and not just "herberts" on the sky news app having their say. Not a dig, but its a different beast for fans at the game compared to viewers, so if 70-80% of regular match goers get a say, as yet again the fans dont have any power in the game, and their views are rarely sought.
Last edited:
Liverbirdie
Ryder Cup Winner
The problem I have with the ref yesterday, apart from his general inconsistency during the game, was that he has VAR as a back up, so doesnt necessarily have to blow as it will be checked anyway, especially as he gave handball despite it being clearly the shoulder.
D
Deleted member 16999
Guest
I don’t like Taylor Pete, but you were there, you’re observing the speed of play, intensity of the players and atmosphere from the crowd, now imagine being him, expected to keep up with play and get every decision correct.
VVD plays a 40yd ball, 3 players close in on it and it hits Lallana, from his position, distance etc he makes a call, not every decision needs time to make, he’s made a genuine error, last season 0-0, this season 1-0 LPool, thanks to VAR, not you, but I think some fans are expecting perfection for every decision.
I think the biggest thing we can take from var is that mistakes are made. It’s simply human error.
That being said, without var to show it, we’d get the usual tripe that it evens itself out. It doesn’t. Now everyone is treated equally. Does offside need clarification? Yes. But everything else is fine imo.
That being said, without var to show it, we’d get the usual tripe that it evens itself out. It doesn’t. Now everyone is treated equally. Does offside need clarification? Yes. But everything else is fine imo.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
1. You hear the communication between the ref and video ref so we all know what’s going on.
I'd agree to a trial, as footy fans are a bit more reactionary than other sports (riots, pitch invasions, death threats to officials etc). It could also show up refereeing "bias" by how they ask the questions to the VAR official - for the same decision he can ask it in different ways by the type of question he asksand whether a direct or indirect question - Is there a reason for me to disallow this goal / did the defender make contact with the attacker / was there enough contact by the defender to consider it foul play etc......
2. Offside - there needs to be a tolerance, a “refs/linesman” call for example where is that tight they go with the call made on the pitch - they also don’t show the lines to everyone as it confuses the matter.
We will moan about whether someone is 4 inches of 5 inches offside then, your just moving the lines but using them in the same manner, then.
3. Maybe go to a “clear daylight” rule - only offside if there is clear daylight between the defender and attacker.
Totally disagree, and again, how do you measure it - in inches or in lux? What about night games?
4. Handball - if it hits the handball it’s a foul - accident or not.
Absolutely against this. So basically your are sanctioning poor wingers and full backs to just blast the ball at the first defenders arms, just 2 yards away. Why bother trying to put in a great, arcing, spinning, cross into a 2 yard area in between 2 centre halves and right on the head of yor striker, when you can just blast it as a defender 2 yards away. Daft.
Go back to what we had about 5 years ago, whereby its deliberate only or if you are deliberately trying to block it with your arms.
I do believe in attackers getting a slight benefit, and I think a good option would be for VAR to still check "the lines", but the part of the body that is only designated to be offside is the part of your body that you either score with or your first touch is with. So if your armpit/head/shoulder is offside but you score with your foot its okay, same the other way around, if yor foot is offside, but you head it in, your okay. In general play it would be the same with the "assister", if his head is offside, but his first touch is with his foot then he crosses it in, he's fine.
It gives a slight advantage, but is also measurable, and should mainly be a matter of "fact".
I think we need to run with it for the remainder of the season, then managers, players, refs and most importantly fans have a say.
Season ticket holders and official club members can vote on certain parts of it also, and not just "herberts" on the sky news app having their say. Not a dig, but its a different beast for fans at the game compared to viewers, so if 70-80% of regular match goers get a say, as yet again the fans dont have any power in the game, and their views are rarely sought.
The game is more than just the fans in the ground now - there is prob more watching on telly by a considerable margin than watching in the ground so why shouldn’t they have a say if the sport was going to ask the fans ?
It maybe not a dig but it’s close to snobbery when there are millions around the county and even more around the world watching the games. Just take Salahs impact for the club in the Middle East for example - it’s massive for the club.
And why should fans have power in the game ? Do fans get asked in any other sport ?
The fans in the ground are the ones most affected though. So if any fans were to be asked, it should be them. Not us Sat at home, we know what’s going on, at the ground you don’t.
I agree financially, tv exposure is massive for clubs. But how often is the kop or anfields atmosphere referenced when it’s a big game. Playing in an empty stadium because fans have decided enough is enough isn’t an option either.
As per my biggest point re var, at least now all fans are talking about fair decisions. It’s no longer small clubs fans complaining whilst the favoured clubs tell us things even out.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Thought this was a good visual representation
robinthehood
Hacker
Its irrelevant, we have a system that while not 100% accurate , it's still way better than a assistant ref can be.
Before VAR we accepted marginal decisions and moved on. Now that we are seeing them being drawn and worked out everyone is losing their *** and going mental.
It definitely needs to be quicker and the whole line drawing on t.v. needs to go.
But unless we're going to ditch VAR we need to just accept it and move on.
M
You could have posted this yesterday. Would have stopped the bickering ??
Imo if it’s 0.02 seconds per frame. They should use the frame prior to day light between ball and person playing it. Gives any margins on error to the attacking team. But in grand scheme of things, not defender or attacker can plan to step up and play offside, or break to that level of accuracy.
You could have posted this yesterday. Would have stopped the bickering ??
Imo if it’s 0.02 seconds per frame. They should use the frame prior to day light between ball and person playing it. Gives any margins on error to the attacking team. But in grand scheme of things, not defender or attacker can plan to step up and play offside, or break to that level of accuracy.
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
All fans are affected - but the communication needs to be better within the stadium , going to hard at Anfield without a big screen though
The minute you start to “segregate” fans by only asking people who go to the game then a division starts - people will always go to the game , people aren’t going to stop going to a game because of VAR - there were more mistakes before VAR and people still went. The clubs make a lot of money from that telly exposure and I reckon losing that telly money could have a bigger effect
Liverbirdie
Ryder Cup Winner
Yes, but:-
A. He was inconsistent throughtout the game, so this was the cherry on the cake of a poor performance anyway. Jeez, Wolves must have taken at least 3-4 illegal throw-ins nevermind all of the other stuff, including some poor decisions against Wolves. The throw ins arent even at speed.
B. He does have VAR as a back up, so for him to whistle for something that didnt happen is porr, especially when he could have asked the VAR guy to just "check" for handball, as its very important what a ref gives initially, as it changes the "burden of proof" when a VAR official has to overturn an original decision compared to just confirming or denying a suspicion of a foul, especially if he isnt 95% sure. It does make a big difference.
Fans aren’t being segregated. I’m not saying one lot is better than the rest.
How about If Sky were told that all the stuff we see at home can’t be shown now. So when var occurs they just keep the cameras rolling on the players stood on the pitch. No commentary and no further reference to the issue after the game restarts.
The experience for match goers and tv viewers is already different. To claim it’s not more of a disruption to those in the stadium is simply not true.
The issue I was making about fans not going, had nothing to do without the amount of mistakes, and more simply down to the disruptions.
My Nan and half a dozen friends all cancelled their season tickets last year due to TV games being rescheduled. Late nights in winter not ideal for old folk. So it does play a part. 3. More have decided this year to not renew theirs due to the change of atmosphere. Don’t get me wrong. Liverpoool will never have a shortfall of fans wanting tickets. But it still has had an effect.
Liverbirdie
Ryder Cup Winner
Because the fans in the ground are being short-changed, and I incude my club in that as we dont have any screens.
If Tashy becomes the norm where matchgoers are driven away from the game and yoiu then get half-empty grounds, how will that do for your "product".
A "telly" fan can stream it illegaly for less than £50 a year now, the same as what a match-goer pays for 1 game. For someone who does do the aways and has a season ticket, they can be "investing" £5-10k a season watching his football compared to the one who is investing nothing. That is whi I also included members who may only for to 5 games a season, but still contributes.
So if you take your "everyone should have an equal say" to the nth degree, and all Asian fans vote for 2am kick offs so that they can watch it after they get in from work, we go with that?
Call it snobbery if you like, but to me regular and semi-regular match goers should have a bigger say than the red button crowd.
Still want the same handball rule?
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
The segregation is if following LB suggestions that only match going fans are asked about VAR or consulted when it’s not just them that watches the games.
As for the VAR when it happens - as I said needs better communication within the stadium so that they know what’s going on , it happens in rugby , hockey , cricket , tennis etc - communication is key to making it work and right now it’s poor
The scheduling has always been a bone of contention for fans - it’s part of getting the telly money which helps pay for those top players etc - vicious circle and don’t know what the answer is to that
Liverbirdie
Ryder Cup Winner
How many match goers on here 10-12 maybe?
If Tashy goes through with his threat not to go, thats maybe 8-10%, if that continues into the mainstream, could make a big difference.
Most of the extra money in the game has gone to agents and the players and managers. If it went back to the main income being at the gate, football would re-adjust over time, probably for the better. lets go back to it being affordable and players just being on 10k a week (more than enough).
robinthehood
Hacker
Thbf I agree with your point earlier that maybe the fans shouldn’t be asked. No other sport has asked them. But if fans were asked, then I fully agree with LB that it should be matchgoets only as their spectacle has the greater disruption.
I would imagine match goers Probably account for less than 10% of the viewing public on matches. In fact it’s probably closer to 1% worldwide. No way should they dictate how those that goes get effected. Us at home get the best of it all.
