Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
Since he has said the blood scandal victims will get what they deserve, I did wonder whether this was a way to avoid the comp payouts for this PO scandal.
Post Office - Horizon scandal
- Thread starter Jensen
- Start date
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
Every one of those Sub Postmasters who suffered was a result of wrongful actions and inactions of other people.
Let us not forget that people are responsible and accountable. Or should be.
The inquiry should establish WHO.
An inaction by the police and CPS as a result of this inquiry establishing the WHO will be inexcusable.
Vennells should be in custody already, in isolation for her own protection and on suicide watch. She had a very haunted look as she left the building yesterday.
I wonder what her prayers are this morning.
Will her god forgive her and protect her? I don't think anyone else will, unless she is in jail.
Let us not forget that people are responsible and accountable. Or should be.
The inquiry should establish WHO.
An inaction by the police and CPS as a result of this inquiry establishing the WHO will be inexcusable.
Vennells should be in custody already, in isolation for her own protection and on suicide watch. She had a very haunted look as she left the building yesterday.
I wonder what her prayers are this morning.
Will her god forgive her and protect her? I don't think anyone else will, unless she is in jail.
An interesting 2 days… her powers of recall are as I would expect, and hope, from a CEO, i.e. very much on point. Sadly, she avoids some very tasty topics - there’s a shock!
Excellent work by Jason Beer KC.
Today’s questioning from the Core Participants barristers & solicitors will be brutal. Past performances by them have been for more direct and accusatory.
Excellent work by Jason Beer KC.
Today’s questioning from the Core Participants barristers & solicitors will be brutal. Past performances by them have been for more direct and accusatory.
I think your last paragraph here is big. I'm expecting it to be more brutal and pointed. Good.
Her dramatic pause, long stretch to the tissue box, dab eyes etc may be more frequent. I'll be disappointed if today's barristers don't do at least one eye roll at this performance.
Mudball
Assistant Pro
She also resigned from the Church.. how bad does the Church think this is compared to all its other scandals
Tashyboy
Please don’t ask to see my tatts 👍
The thing you describe is called something like political diversion. You create a bigger story than another.
Personally I still think she is protecting people
In the government. She has said she lied to MPs. But not stated who in the government actually knew. If that comes Out especially over the next six weeks then the final nail is nailed in the Tory coffin. Although hundreds of final nails have already been but in the coffin already.
Robster59
Tour Rookie
Shocking to me is the consistent message in all this is the total uncaring attitude in the Post Office to all those who have been wrongly prosecuted, jailed, made bankrupt etc.
Even though they knew there was an issue, they were still more concerned about keeping it off the front page, rather than trying to right the wrongs they had already done by their actions and inactions. More concerned with protecting the reputation of the Post Office than the rights of those who were wronged. Vennels is just one rotten apple in a whole rotten barrel. But she had the opportunity to right a wrong, to get this whole things sorted, but instead colluded in keeping it swept under the carpet.
They interviewed two former postmasters on the BBC this morning. One said that his criminal conviction went on all his job applications, so he couldn't get a job. Another said she tried to kill herself twice. Did the Post Office care about this, or even think about the consequences. Not for one second.
They have lied, hidden evidence and perverted the course of justice. I really hope that post this, the Police and CPS go for them big time.
Even though they knew there was an issue, they were still more concerned about keeping it off the front page, rather than trying to right the wrongs they had already done by their actions and inactions. More concerned with protecting the reputation of the Post Office than the rights of those who were wronged. Vennels is just one rotten apple in a whole rotten barrel. But she had the opportunity to right a wrong, to get this whole things sorted, but instead colluded in keeping it swept under the carpet.
They interviewed two former postmasters on the BBC this morning. One said that his criminal conviction went on all his job applications, so he couldn't get a job. Another said she tried to kill herself twice. Did the Post Office care about this, or even think about the consequences. Not for one second.
They have lied, hidden evidence and perverted the course of justice. I really hope that post this, the Police and CPS go for them big time.
GreiginFife
Money List Winner
Ah there we go, personally damning statement/question and the tears emerge.
And within 10 seconds they’re gone again.
Just admitted that in 2013 she knew the convictions were on shaky ground but did f.all about any of it.
And within 10 seconds they’re gone again.
Just admitted that in 2013 she knew the convictions were on shaky ground but did f.all about any of it.
Got half an eye on her live testimony this morning and it’s just painful to watch. Embarrassing.
The woman is either a born liar or grossly incompetent. And I simply don’t believe it’s the latter.
Vennells claims, when she was told about bugs in the Horizon system in 2013, and that these had been known about for several years, that she CANNOT REMEMBER whether she asked why she was not told about them before.
And we are supposed to believe that? The woman was the CEO for pity’s sake. It would have been the very first thing she would have asked. And she can’t remember?
Good job I did my blood pressure first thing this morning because I can feel it going through the roof.
And we are supposed to believe that? The woman was the CEO for pity’s sake. It would have been the very first thing she would have asked. And she can’t remember?
Good job I did my blood pressure first thing this morning because I can feel it going through the roof.
GreiginFife
Money List Winner
And there's the "it was a big organisation, I can't know everything" defence...
I have worked with 13 client organisations in my career and in many cases interfacing directly with COO and CEO level folks and not a single one of them would not know half of what this vapid waste of space claims she didn't know.
I have worked with 13 client organisations in my career and in many cases interfacing directly with COO and CEO level folks and not a single one of them would not know half of what this vapid waste of space claims she didn't know.
Bunkermagnet
Journeyman Pro
As the comment went "living in la la land".
GreiginFife
Money List Winner
Jeez, Moloney has gone at her there. He's bob-on with the assessment that it's regret when caught.
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
"I loved the Post Office and..."
Followed by a big pause while she worked herself up to that put-on tearful strain in her voice.
What followed was utter BS.
She loved the Post Office for what it was giving her - a great end to her career that would result in a Knighthood to follow the CBE, promotion to Bishop and a seat in The Lords.
All this self-aggrandisement was dependent on taking the PO from big losses to huge profits and it being sold off, as Royal Mail was, with a massive bonus to her.
She was not going to let anyone or anything prevent her from achieving these goals.
She was prepared, without conscience, to see others go to prison and face personal ruin, than have her personal objective deflected.
She has shown over the last three days that she is well practiced in hypocrisy, denying culpability and downright lying.
She was the head of a criminal conspiracy.
Sentencing guidelines for Fraud By Abuse Of Position is 6 to 10 years when the fraud is planned and prolonged with multiple victims suffering severe financial hardship and personal ruin.
Let her be arrested and charged.
Similar to many of the victims she can be offered the choice of a guilty plea for a 6 year sentence or run the risk of 10 years for a not guilty plea that results in conviction.
The Proceeds OF Crime Act might also be used to a limited extent.
But I'm fantasising.
In this real world I fear that none of this will happen, not even an arrest.
Got it off my chest though.
Followed by a big pause while she worked herself up to that put-on tearful strain in her voice.
What followed was utter BS.
She loved the Post Office for what it was giving her - a great end to her career that would result in a Knighthood to follow the CBE, promotion to Bishop and a seat in The Lords.
All this self-aggrandisement was dependent on taking the PO from big losses to huge profits and it being sold off, as Royal Mail was, with a massive bonus to her.
She was not going to let anyone or anything prevent her from achieving these goals.
She was prepared, without conscience, to see others go to prison and face personal ruin, than have her personal objective deflected.
She has shown over the last three days that she is well practiced in hypocrisy, denying culpability and downright lying.
She was the head of a criminal conspiracy.
Sentencing guidelines for Fraud By Abuse Of Position is 6 to 10 years when the fraud is planned and prolonged with multiple victims suffering severe financial hardship and personal ruin.
Let her be arrested and charged.
Similar to many of the victims she can be offered the choice of a guilty plea for a 6 year sentence or run the risk of 10 years for a not guilty plea that results in conviction.
The Proceeds OF Crime Act might also be used to a limited extent.
But I'm fantasising.
In this real world I fear that none of this will happen, not even an arrest.
Got it off my chest though.
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D-S
Well-known member
The triumphalist tone of the final email discussed on the day really showed the true character that she has tried so hard to hide for the past three days.
Swango1980
Well-known member
Her advisors must have informed her that her best defence is to cry every now and then. It is for the X Factor generation, who love a bit of a tear jerker.
After 2 and a half days of testimony I’ve got some answers but more questions. There’s a danger of viewing the questions put to her and her answers in isolation. In that respect, she comes across as grossly incompetent. However, there’s been way too many revelations in earlier hearings for her to say “I wasn’t aware.” Add to that, that she originally joined the PO in 2007 as Group Network Director before becoming CEO. She will have known exactly what’s been going on in the PO before she became CEO. The network is the branches, and she said she didn’t know what had been going on at branch level… aye right… she will have known about the prosecutions from back then, including the defence saying the system was faulty.
Those that have followed the testimony in detail may remember a string of emails between Susan Crichton, PO General Counsel, and Paula Vennells. Susan Crichton was pushing for Second Sight to be allowed to complete their review unhindered, and that the rules around Disclosure were followed. Another manager was asked to complete a report that should have been Crichton’s remit. During the fallout that ensued Crichton received supportive emails from Vennells but other members of the SLT were receiving emails about the need to engineer Crichton out of the business. On the one hand she appeared as a caring manager but at the same time sticking the knife in…
I suppose I could say it’s been 2.5 days wasted. The only revelation of any real significance was the discussion around an email the proved Michael Rudkin had visited Fujitsu, and he had seen branch accounts being accessed remotely. Yes she was tripped up a few times - long pauses/cue tears - but she came across as a lightweight. Other than that there was an awful lot of reinforcing what had already been learned from previous witnesses.
If I was putting a list of people I’d like to see charged, I don’t think she’d top the list.
Those that have followed the testimony in detail may remember a string of emails between Susan Crichton, PO General Counsel, and Paula Vennells. Susan Crichton was pushing for Second Sight to be allowed to complete their review unhindered, and that the rules around Disclosure were followed. Another manager was asked to complete a report that should have been Crichton’s remit. During the fallout that ensued Crichton received supportive emails from Vennells but other members of the SLT were receiving emails about the need to engineer Crichton out of the business. On the one hand she appeared as a caring manager but at the same time sticking the knife in…
I suppose I could say it’s been 2.5 days wasted. The only revelation of any real significance was the discussion around an email the proved Michael Rudkin had visited Fujitsu, and he had seen branch accounts being accessed remotely. Yes she was tripped up a few times - long pauses/cue tears - but she came across as a lightweight. Other than that there was an awful lot of reinforcing what had already been learned from previous witnesses.
If I was putting a list of people I’d like to see charged, I don’t think she’d top the list.
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I know this is an exchange we have had previously, but I would be absolutely staggered if anyone is prosecuted for fraud offences as a result of this scandal, certainly Paula Vennells.
It is nigh on impossible to see how her actions meet the legal definition, and as such the points which a prosecution would need to prove cannot be satisfied.
Timetable through to closing statements at the end of the hearing.
Voyager EMH
Slipper Wearing Plucker of Pheasants
Yes, I was only dreaming.
It was not the weather, or other random events, that caused the suffering of so many Sub Postmasters.
The cause was the actions and inactions of other people.
If we have a system of justice that is worth more than nothing, arrests and convictions for crimes and misdemeanours should follow this inquiry.
One lawyer summed it up for me near the end with the rhetorical question that went something like, "You are responsible for your own downfall, are you not?"
She was rabbit-in-the-headlights at that one.
It follows that she was responsible for the downfall of others, the Sub Postmasters, and should face prosecution for a crime.
