Political thread-Question for GM

pauljames87

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I love a good political discussion but, at times, it went too far here. I'm guilty of it at times, and its not a place I want to return to. The forum is close on 6 months without political discussions and has survived quite well without them.

There are other forums out there, thousands of them. Many tolerate political discussions, and some do so without the rancour we had here. Yes our bestest buddies might not be on those forums but there's nothing stopping anyone from making new friends or inviting some friends with them.

Whilst I agree 1000 of forums out there but there isn't the people on here to debate with

Maybe people want to debate with the likes of Phil and swingslike?
 

Kellfire

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I love a good political discussion but, at times, it went too far here. I'm guilty of it at times, and its not a place I want to return to. The forum is close on 6 months without political discussions and has survived quite well without them.

There are other forums out there, thousands of them. Many tolerate political discussions, and some do so without the rancour we had here. Yes our bestest buddies might not be on those forums but there's nothing stopping anyone from making new friends or inviting some friends with them.
I think it got so heated over the past while because politics has become basically impossible to ignore.

I’d say that most people can get through life most of the time ignoring who’s in power because there’s very little change in the day to day for most people no matter who’s currently sat in number ten.

That changed slightly around the time of the financial crisis in 2008 as people’s livelihoods started to be affected. Then we had Brexit and last year we had the political side to the handling of Covid-19. Combine these with the surge in power of social media which brought with it a wave of more politicised younger people and you’ve got a perfect storm for strong opinions and arguments.

Personally I think it’s good in the long term to discuss these things. There’s always a stand off at first - look at the way my home country reacted to the Good Friday agreement with some people massively distrusting it and seeing it as bending the knee to terrorists and spitting on the graves of the dead and the other side seeing it as a chance to move on from the atrocities of “war” in the best way that was realistic. But more than twenty years on people are more open to the good that came from it and can talk about it openly from all sides.

Maybe the last five years will lead to more discourse between different opinions on the mainland and people will open their minds to new things in the long term.

Hmm, sounds weirdly optimistic. I can also see people digging their heels in further with arguments continuing to revolve around “snowflake” this and “gammon” that.
 

Orikoru

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I didn't really partake in heavy political discussion anyway, as I'm not that interested in doing so. But I see no reason why you couldn't just have one 'political debate' thread, and all political chats must be directed there. e.g. if a politically charged comment is made in another thread, the user is directed towards the politics thread to thrash it out, and anyone who spills it out of their too many times is infracted.
 
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I'll disagree Phil; I think the right decision would have been to clip the wings, or cage, those certain few who spoiled the threads. A lot of people got a lot of knowledge & pleasure from sensible discussions with others with whom they had diametrically opposed views. And that has been taken from them. Why should the many suffer for the misdemeanours of the few?

I fully respect the rights of MikeH & GM Towers to run this as they see fit, & equally respect the efforts of the mods, but I think the wrong course was taken.

Today we had a thread discussing something non-political which one poster tried to turn political & the mods had to step in. Had this been dealt with by dealing with the offenders previously rather than banning threads would this have happened today? I think not.

I totally understand exactly what you mean and it’s prob something that could have been done very early in the Referendum stages - I believe two people were warned to either stay away etc but it didn’t work and became beyond toxic

But I do hope that we get back to a stage were political debate is allowed again with some showing restrain and if not removed from the thread - I certainly learned a lot from the likes of Hobbit and Bluewolf for example
 

Liverbirdie

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I'll disagree Phil; I think the right decision would have been to clip the wings, or cage, those certain few who spoiled the threads. A lot of people got a lot of knowledge & pleasure from sensible discussions with others with whom they had diametrically opposed views. And that has been taken from them. Why should the many suffer for the misdemeanours of the few?

I fully respect the rights of MikeH & GM Towers to run this as they see fit, & equally respect the efforts of the mods, but I think the wrong course was taken.

Today we had a thread discussing something non-political which one poster tried to turn political & the mods had to step in. Had this been dealt with by dealing with the offenders previously rather than banning threads would this have happened today? I think not.

The thing is Rich, its a bit like the footy thread.

Some people have frankly said some disgusting stuff over the years, and continue to, as well as obvious trolling.

I dont know if GM/Mods have the software options to do it, but sometimes people should be banned from certain threads if they can't behave, whether weeks / months / for good.
 

drdel

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My golfing buddies discuss politics almost every time we play without ripping each other apart.

Politics are a fact of life and it should be possible to have a mature discussion. A rule of '3 strikes the and you're banned for 2 months' could deter the extreme commentary.
 

Ethan

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My golfing buddies discuss politics almost every time we play without ripping each other apart.

Politics are a fact of life and it should be possible to have a mature discussion. A rule of '3 strikes the and you're banned for 2 months' could deter the extreme commentary.

Against strikes, eh. Typical right winger.;)
 
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I totally understand exactly what you mean and it’s prob something that could have been done very early in the Referendum stages - I believe two people were warned to either stay away etc but it didn’t work and became beyond toxic

But I do hope that we get back to a stage were political debate is allowed again with some showing restrain and if not removed from the thread - I certainly learned a lot from the likes of Hobbit and Bluewolf for example
But it places the mods in an invidious position.

One person's view of restraint is another's extremism.
 

azazel

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Perhaps a definition of what they consider to be politics from those at GM would be helpful. Is it discussion of a very narrow definition of politics, Tory v Labour, Remain v Leave, Independence v Unionism, or is it the wider scope of the Cambridge Dictionary definition: "the activities of government, members of law-making organisations, or people who try to influence the way a country is governed"?
 
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But it places the mods in an invidious position.

One person's view of restraint is another's extremism.

I don’t think it was the views that were the issue

It got very toxic and a number resorting to derogatory names and then two people from opposite sides of the fence became very entrenched and just dug further and further down to the point the two of them dominated any thread about the Referendum, Brexit or indeed anything political

I was that bored I had a look back at the a couple threads and you could see it just ended up being daily tit for tat from two people and it dominated every thread to the point they were unreadable for many

There were many posters from opposing sides of the political fence who were able to convey their opinion respectfully - and they gave political novices like me a lot of good insight - shame they were drowned out
 
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I don’t think it was the views that were the issue

It got very toxic and a number resorting to derogatory names and then two people from opposite sides of the fence became very entrenched and just dug further and further down to the point the two of them dominated any thread about the Referendum, Brexit or indeed anything political

I was that bored I had a look back at the a couple threads and you could see it just ended up being daily tit for tat from two people and it dominated every thread to the point they were unreadable for many

There were many posters from opposing sides of the political fence who were able to convey their opinion respectfully - and they gave political novices like me a lot of good insight - shame they were drowned out

I was not referring to the political views of any individual.

My concern is that some will consider themselves to be expressing their view in a restrained manner whilst others may regard their expression as aggressive rude and extreme.

The mods would then have to decide and, quite frankly, I would not envy their task.
 

GB72

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Having been one before, I support the removal of political threads for the sake of the mods. Not sure how many appreciate that it is done for free and voluntarily. Also not sure how many appreciate it and what goes into sorting out problems (at least it did before I hung up my ban hammer a few years ago).

When a thread gets out of hand, believe it or not most people just get out the popcorn and watch, they do not report it. When a mod sees this happening they have to sit and monitor the thread to check what is going on (and hence some threads are locked if there is no sign of the argument abating). I will always remember a particular bad weekend of trolling a number of years ago and there were mods still online at 4.00 in the morning at a weekend clearing that up. Anyway, someone has to take responsibility for keeping it in order and that can be a massive drain on time.

So, you clean up the thread and what happens then. You get the public and private messages from people demanding to know why their post was removed as if their snide comments on the government of the day was the most insightful contribution to political satire known to man (it rarely is). You then get the 'why can he say that when I cannot say this' arguments (the argument currently being applied to why people can go for a walk but cannot play golf). You can easily lose a day replying to these.

After that, you than have to deal with any bans or infractions. Not randomly awarded but rather discussed at some length in the mod only section of the forum. Mods have had to infract or ban people they have played many rounds of golf with, even some that are classed as friends. Not a fun thing to deal with.

So, think about it. Why on earth would you want to allow political debate when it rarely stays above the level of personal attack and has to be dealt with as mentioned above.
 

Liverbirdie

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Having been one before, I support the removal of political threads for the sake of the mods. Not sure how many appreciate that it is done for free and voluntarily. Also not sure how many appreciate it and what goes into sorting out problems (at least it did before I hung up my ban hammer a few years ago).

When a thread gets out of hand, believe it or not most people just get out the popcorn and watch, they do not report it. When a mod sees this happening they have to sit and monitor the thread to check what is going on (and hence some threads are locked if there is no sign of the argument abating). I will always remember a particular bad weekend of trolling a number of years ago and there were mods still online at 4.00 in the morning at a weekend clearing that up. Anyway, someone has to take responsibility for keeping it in order and that can be a massive drain on time.

So, you clean up the thread and what happens then. You get the public and private messages from people demanding to know why their post was removed as if their snide comments on the government of the day was the most insightful contribution to political satire known to man (it rarely is). You then get the 'why can he say that when I cannot say this' arguments (the argument currently being applied to why people can go for a walk but cannot play golf). You can easily lose a day replying to these.

After that, you than have to deal with any bans or infractions. Not randomly awarded but rather discussed at some length in the mod only section of the forum. Mods have had to infract or ban people they have played many rounds of golf with, even some that are classed as friends. Not a fun thing to deal with.

So, think about it. Why on earth would you want to allow political debate when it rarely stays above the level of personal attack and has to be dealt with as mentioned above.

Its good to get the mod side of things for a change.(y)

Do you know if it is possible to ban individuals from certain threads, but they can still post elsewhere?
 

Hobbit

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Its good to get the mod side of things for a change.(y)

Do you know if it is possible to ban individuals from certain threads, but they can still post elsewhere?

If it can't be done technically, its easy to just tell an individual they are banned from posting in 'x' thread for 2 weeks. 2nd offence, a month. 3 strikes and out.
 

Crow

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Its good to get the mod side of things for a change.(y)

Do you know if it is possible to ban individuals from certain threads, but they can still post elsewhere?

Or better still, lock individuals into one thread so they can only post there and nowhere else.
Then they can spout bile at each other to their heart's content.
 
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Or better still, lock individuals into one thread so they can only post there and nowhere else.
Then they can spout bile at each other to their heart's content.
Without wanting to get controversial, isn’t this similar to what MetalMickie posted previously, who or how do you define bile? for example, have a look at the smart motorway thread from this morning and you’ll see petty insults being thrown around. Those involved may disagree, so maybe it’s more of a perception of what is being said and how it is being read.
 

Orikoru

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Perhaps a definition of what they consider to be politics from those at GM would be helpful. Is it discussion of a very narrow definition of politics, Tory v Labour, Remain v Leave, Independence v Unionism, or is it the wider scope of the Cambridge Dictionary definition: "the activities of government, members of law-making organisations, or people who try to influence the way a country is governed"?
Technically every discussion we've had about lockdown rules and when we're allowed to play golf has been political.
 

Liverbirdie

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If it can't be done technically, its easy to just tell an individual they are banned from posting in 'x' thread for 2 weeks. 2nd offence, a month. 3 strikes and out.

Yep, but it looks like the mods are already overworked, so saves them having to check.

Some dont deserve a 2nd or 3rd chance either, if they have gone way across the line.
 
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