Please tell me I haven't made this up.....tree roots

[Sweep]

Blimey we will be asking for free relief from water hazards soon in case of drowning! Trees are a big part of the game dont hit them near them and you dont have a problem.....Penalty drop of course but nowt else in my opinion...

I agree that you should play the ball as it lies and I have no problem with taking the penalty. What I was saying is that it seems strange that you can ask for relief from standing water but not from a tree root. A tree root can cause serious injury. Standing water may get mud in your eye or at worst you might catch a cold . Why not just take a penalty drop for standing water? Stones in bunkers were deemed dangerous as was lightening and these were all taken care of under the rules.

 

[MashieNiblick]

On my local course theirs 3 holes that have trees with exposed roots, Local rule say its free relief id be amazed if other clubs didn't do the same, Ive seen people really hurt there wrists.
Even if it wasn't a local rule to free relief id still do it anyway no way I'm risking my wrists or future playing

Interesting in the light of Liverbirdie's post referring to Decision 33-8/8 - Local Rule Providing Relief from Tree Roots, which is also on the R&A site, which says that such a local rule is not permissable.

If the roots are exposed surely it is common sense to adapt your choice of shot accordingly. You are not entitled to play a particular shot. Even if the roots aren't visiible, it is a reasonable assumption that there might be roots under surface if you are near a tree.

So either play something safe like a little bunt with a mid iron or take a penalty drop. People can't just assume they should be able to play normally and risk hitting the roots.

 

[USER1999]

I agree that you should play the ball as it lies and I have no problem with taking the penalty. What I was saying is that it seems strange that you can ask for relief from standing water but not from a tree root. A tree root can cause serious injury. Standing water may get mud in your eye or at worst you might catch a cold . Why not just take a penalty drop for standing water? Stones in bunkers were deemed dangerous as was lightening and these were all taken care of under the rules.

Standing water is an abnormal ground condition. Roots are permanent.

 

[Liverbirdie]

On my local course theirs 3 holes that have trees with exposed roots, Local rule say its free relief id be amazed if other clubs didn't do the same, Ive seen people really hurt there wrists.
Even if it wasn't a local rule to free relief id still do it anyway no way I'm risking my wrists or future playing

Huzzah - I'm not mad.

It seems it's against the rules though, even if a local rule.

 

[duncan mackie]

Huzzah - I'm not mad.

It seems it's against the rules though, even if a local rule.

you need to read the quotes you included in your previous post again.......

 

[Liverbirdie]

you need to read the quotes you included in your previous post again.......

I was going from this by Spawn, in his post:-

On my local course theirs 3 holes that have trees with exposed roots, Local rule say its free relief id be amazed if other clubs didn't do the same, Ive seen people really hurt there wrists.
Even if it wasn't a local rule to free relief id still do it anyway no way I'm risking my wrists or future playing

 

[Sweep]

Standing water is an abnormal ground condition. Roots are permanent.

I know.

 

[spawn_ukuk]

I think common sense has to prevail here, exposed tree roots are not going anywhere and we aint pros, dam even the pros cant hit it straight regularly.

I think local which will at least help to prevent injuries is a good thing, as i said in a previous Ive seen people really hurt them self's because they didn't want to move the ball from a exposed root

Yes you can quote rules and that, but common sense has to be the winner here

 

[HawkeyeMS]

I think common sense has to prevail here, exposed tree roots are not going anywhere and we aint pros, dam even the pros cant hit it straight regularly.

I think local which will at least help to prevent injuries is a good thing, as i said in a previous Ive seen people really hurt them self's because they didn't want to move the ball from a exposed root

Yes you can quote rules and that, but common sense has to be the winner here

I know you don't want the rules quoted but they do cover this exact situation, they allow for a penalty drop. You could injure yourself trying to play a ball too close to the face of a bunker as well. The common sense you speak of is to take the drop and move on. A tree is an obstruction, the root is part of the tree, frankly I don't see the issue.

 

[Region3]

I think local which will at least help to prevent injuries is a good thing, as i said in a previous Ive seen people really hurt them self's because they didn't want to move the ball from a exposed root

Yes you can quote rules and that, but common sense has to be the winner here

Why didn't they want to move the ball?

It's the common sense of the golfer that refuses to take a penalty if there's a risk of injury that needs questioning.

If you give free relief for tree roots where do you draw the line?
Brick walls edging water hazards.
Bushes with sharp thorns.
Steep slopes.
Fence posts marking OOB.
Railway sleepers in bunkers.

 

[Region3]

I know you don't want the rules quoted but they do cover this exact situation, they allow for a penalty drop. You could injure yourself trying to play a ball too close to the face of a bunker as well. The common sense you speak of is to take the drop and move on. A tree is an obstruction, the root is part of the tree, frankly I don't see the issue.

Beat me to it.

 

[spawn_ukuk]

Hey my local golf course is just a public course, They got a local rule to cover the tree roots, Dont get biting me head off
Some people are not aware of all the rules, id be surprised if anyone is, unless they have a rule book with them

 

[garyinderry]

im one to talk with my mahoosive divots but surely if you suspect that there is a root under the ball and you might get hurt, the sensible thing would be to try and hit it like a fairway bunker shot. just pick the ball clean off the top.

 

[spawn_ukuk]

im one to talk with my mahoosive divots but surely if you suspect that there is a root under the ball and you might get hurt, the sensible thing would be to try and hit it like a fairway bunker shot. just pick the ball clean off the top.

In a perfect world of course yes, when theirs a root underneath close to the surface its not always easy to tell, and kinda sure theirs a rule where you cant test the ground for one, Not sure if i made that up but i heard it some where.

The trees with roots on or close to the surface are kinda grouped together so we can kinda suspect when there might be a risk.
Thats why theirs a local for a free drop, But i might starting taking that drop with a penalty now to a calm a few people down on here

 

[HawkeyeMS]

In a perfect world of course yes, when theirs a root underneath close to the surface its not always easy to tell, and kinda sure theirs a rule where you cant test the ground for one, Not sure if i made that up but i heard it some where.

The trees with roots on or close to the surface are kinda grouped together so we can kinda suspect when there might be a risk.
Thats why theirs a local for a free drop, But i might starting taking that drop with a penalty now to a calm a few people down on here

The problem as I see it arises when the club starts to play qualifying competitions with that local rule in place. Since the local rule is not allowed, anyone who has used it in a comp has signed for an incorrect scorecard and should (unless you can find a Tiger-gate type scenario ) be disqualified. Many if not all handicaps at your club are therefore invalid under CONGU guidelines as the competition doesn't adhere to the rules.

 

[Region3]

Hey my local golf course is just a public course, They got a local rule to cover the tree roots, Dont get biting me head off

In a perfect world of course yes, when theirs a root underneath close to the surface its not always easy to tell, and kinda sure theirs a rule where you cant test the ground for one, Not sure if i made that up but i heard it some where.

The trees with roots on or close to the surface are kinda grouped together so we can kinda suspect when there might be a risk.
Thats why theirs a local for a free drop, But i might starting taking that drop with a penalty now to a calm a few people down on here

No-one's biting your head off, just struggling to understand why anyone would endanger themselves rather than take a penalty drop. Not your specific case as there appears to be a rule to cover it for you, but for other people where the choice is play it as it lies or take a penalty.
I've played shots before where I know the club is going to smack a tree after I hit the ball, but if it were my hands that were going to hit the tree hard I'd be chipping out.

It almost reads like some think the club are responsible for any injuries incurred if there's isn't free relief available, for forcing them to play a dangerous shot.

I also vaguely remember reading a rule where you can test for rocks/roots just beneath the surface if you think there may be something there, provided that you don't affect your lie, stance, or line of intended swing.

 

[duncan mackie]

The problem as I see it arises when the club starts to play qualifying competitions with that local rule in place. Since the local rule is not allowed, anyone who has used it in a comp has signed for an incorrect scorecard and should (unless you can find a Tiger-gate type scenario ) be disqualified. Many if not all handicaps at your club are therefore invalid under CONGU guidelines as the competition doesn't adhere to the rules.

let's keep this in context - if those tree rots were on closely mown areas, or relief from them on those 3 holes was restricted to closely mown areas, then the LR would theoretically be fine.

the other part of the context is that a huge number of courses have 'illegal' LRs, including very old ones that run big events (which don't use them but that's another matter). Look at Princes Golf Club scorecard LRs as a good example.

 

[Mungoscorner]

It seems that a lot of people are making the assumption that if your ball is sitting on, or near to exposed tree roots,then you are obviously in the clag miles from the fairway ?
When you consider that most trees will have a root system equal in size to the branch system,then obviously large trees will have roots that extend quite a distance from the trunk.I've been a member of several clubs,and i've played numerous others where large trees are to be found within a few yards of the fairway, so it stands to reason that the roots of said trees may extend as far as the fairway.
Why then should somebody have to risk injury,or take a penalty drop if there ball is on the fairway ?
Good post Liverbirdie.

 

[garyinderry]

you are allowed to test the ground around your ball if you think there may be stones or roots under the ground. you can use a tee. I was reading an illustrated rule book today and this was featured in it. ill take a pic and post it here when I get a chance.

 

[HawkeyeMS]

let's keep this in context - if those tree rots were on closely mown areas, or relief from them on those 3 holes was restricted to closely mown areas, then the LR would theoretically be fine.

the other part of the context is that a huge number of courses have 'illegal' LRs, including very old ones that run big events (which don't use them but that's another matter). Look at Princes Golf Club scorecard LRs as a good example.

Hold on, Tiger and the masters committee got absolutely slaughtered after the masters debacle by he holier than though brigade on here. Just because a lot of clubs have dodgy local rules doesn't make it right. Either we want the rules upheld or we don't, do I detect a pot, kettle situation appearing?

Besides, I havent seen anywhere on this thread that says the roots were in closely mown areas?