Please help settle a dispute regarding taking relief from a path under rule 16 1a

[rulefan]

Note: In order to determine the nearest point of relief accurately, the player should use the club with which he would have made his next stroke if the
condition were not there to simulate the address position, direction of play and swing for such a stroke.

The use of the word 'should' in the Note is to explain that the player does not in fact have to through the exact procedure before making the drop. As is always explained at the referees' Rules Schools, if the resultant drop produces the outcome required by the rules then it id a correct drop.
'Should' embraces the whole of the following underlined clause which follows it.

 

[rulefan]

I know, and this is what I been trying to tell Traminator, and now accepted.

I see that now.
I was in the middle of cutting and pasting from my old copy of the rules when the posts were being made and I missed seeing them

 

[rulefan]

All's well that ends well.

 

[doublebogey7]

Yes, feel free to keep sticking the knife in ???

Would I

Just to clarify ?
I accepted what I thought what was the "new 2019" Rule, I just thought there was a slight variation pre that, but I had just learnt the rule incorrectly.
Thanks again for making sure I listened ??

You're welcome

 

[Foxholer]

I know, and this is what I been trying to tell Traminator, and now accepted.

Actually, I believe he may have had a point! The wording HAS been changed around that area - with the inclusion (clarification) of the bit about which club to use to determine whether free relief is allowed.

 

[williamalex1]

The nearest point of relief is the point the ball will be.
It is often the case that, for a right handed golfer, the npr is on the left side of the path even when the ball is near the right side of the path.
It's easy, just take your stance clear of the right of the path and put a tee where the ball will be, then put a tee in the ground where the ball is clear of the left of the path.
Whichever is closest to the original position is the nearest point.

That's the best and simplest explanation I've heard ,

 

[rulefan]

Taking this forward, a scenario:

A player would probably be hitting no more than a 7 iron out of an area of GUR due to the lie.
Instead of measuring NPCR with his stance and a 7 iron in hand, and then dropping within another measured 1 driver length, he just takes a stance with his intended club, 3 wood, and drops where the clubhead sits.
Although he hasn't measured correctly, he has still dropped well within the allowed area.
This is no problem I believe?

You are correct. The point is that he doesn't have to actually measure. He may estimate - as long as he gets it right!

 

[rulefan]

That's the best and simplest explanation I've heard ,

But it's not complete.

'.......and put a tee where the ball will be...'
Where will the ball be ? That depends on which club is taken. And that's what the debate was about!

 

[Colin L]

Previously you would measure with the club you intend to use after you've made the drop.

I can 100% guarantee that this wording of measuring with the club you'd use for the ball's current position is new.

I wouldn’t argue about that since you do not and did not measure the NPCR. You estimate the nearest spot you can play from with the club you would have used had there been no interference. That spot is the reference point for the one club length relief area. You can measure the club length with any club but a club length remains the length of the longest club in your bag excluding your putter.

I think you are confusing determining the NCPR and measuring the relief area.

 

[williamalex1]

But it's not complete.

'.......and put a tee where the ball will be...'
Where will the ball be ? That depends on which club is taken. And that's what the debate was about!

Ah! so you can't change your club after the initial measuring , even if the wind changes, or starts raining

 

[Colin L]

Searching round the Internet for the previous rules, here is an example of what was previously in place (I acknowledge it is not taken directly from the R&A or USGA) :
"Remember that the nearest point of relief is the spot where the ball would lie when you take a stance, with the club you would normally use to hit the upcoming shot, in the direction you would be hitting it, and not be interfered with by the cart path in any way."

This is CLEARLY different to what appears to be the current rule, ie you must measure with the club you would use if the obstruction wasn't there, ie the ball was in the same position but there was no path under it.

Now I see it. What you have quoted is wrong. Your paraphrase of the current rule could easily serve as one for the previous one. It pays to refer to the Rules

 

[rulefan]

Ah! so you can't change your club after the initial measuring , even if the wind changes, or starts raining

As you are preparing to determine the npcr you must decide on what club you would have used if the obstruction has not been there. You then proceed to work it out. After you have made the determination and put the ball back into play, you may then use any club.

 

[jim8flog]

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