Please help me understand shaft weights

[Captain_Black.]

I'll try to be brief & explain.
I have a set of Adams Super S hybrids which I launch well, but tend to push them right, they have Adams Ultra Lite regular shafts (no weight markings)

I bought a set of Callaway Mavrik hybrids fitted with Cypher 65g regular shafts.
I can't launch them, they feel too stiff & heavy (sold them now)

I explained the problem to a club fitter today & he said that shaft flex really only has a bearing on shot direction, the weight of the shaft is what really controls the launch & shot height.

So here comes the confusion.
I looked at some Ping G425 hybrids fitted with Senior shafts expecting the shafts to be lighter than the mavriks.
But the Ping Senior shafts were 70g
That really threw me.

Since then, I've looked at loads of different options & seen massive variations of shaft weight.
I saw some Cleveland Halo hybrids fitted with light shafts at 40g (which seemed very light) right up to the Ping G425 hybrids with Senior shafts weighing in at 70g

I've gone back to my Adams hybrids atm, until I figure out what shaft I need to enable me to launch the ball correctly
Thanks for any help.

 

[Dando]

I’ve got x flex 75g shafts in my woods - anything else and I spray it about like a blind man at a urinal

 

[Teebs]

It's a bit of a minefield to be honest.

Shaft choice and subsequent performance is very individual and it is very hard to give advice.
For me, I know within the Tensei brand of shafts, 65g is fine, 85g is too much and I struggle to launch it and it feels heavy (which it is in comparison).
I find the standard Ping shafts (Alta?) Awful for me, but pop their heads into a Ping Tour or Tensei Orange shaft and it's night & day.

Trial and error is the best option..

 

[Crow]

I play old steel shafts, you were lucky if they had an M or an S on them back in the day, anybody's guess what weight they are.

 

[Neilds]

Another thing, such as bounce and ball feel that people like to talk about as it makes them seem intelligent but no-one really fully understands ?

 

[Captain_Black.]

I think I understand bounce ok.
But I take from the lack of replies that nobody else understands shaft weight either? ????
Which makes me feel a little better.
Perhaps we are all playing with unsuitable clubs ?
????

 

[BiMGuy]

I don’t recall ever hearing what the fitter said about weight control launch.

Weight, like most other things will feel and behave differently to the individual.

 

[patricks148]

I'm not sure it's that simple.

I think it used to be that stiff and heavy sort of went hand in hand. Modern tech has changed things. It's all very confusing.

I've a mate that has an X flex 45 gram driver shaft???

 

[TigerBear]

From memory youtubers Rick Shiels and James Robinson released videos a while back, to be fair testing different shafts on drivers.

Conclusions were that performance and numbers were hardly affected if at all.

Not saying don't consider issues like shaft weight, flex, length, lie, bounce, etc. but for us amateurs improving our swing mechanics and sequencing should be the priority!

 

[BiMGuy]

From memory youtubers Rick Shiels and James Robinson released videos a while back, to be fair testing different shafts on drivers.

Conclusions were that performance and numbers were hardly affected if at all.

Not saying don't consider issues like shaft weight, flex, length, lie, bounce, etc. but for us amateurs improving our swing mechanics and sequencing should be the priority!

Pros are probably not the best people to show the differences as they can adapt more quickly than the rest of us.

Someone with a higher swing speed could make a softer lighter shaft work.

I’d challenge anyone with an average swing speed who doesn’t believe there is a difference in shafts, to go hit a heavy x-stiff and a light soft shaft back to back and tell me there was no difference.

 

[Imurg]

Head and shaft combo matters too.
Talking to the fitter and we both reckoned a difference of a few grams was negligible to us...
I was hitting the G430 fairways the other day...trying the 5 wood turned down as I wanted a 4 wood...club felt heavy and unwieldy
Swapped to the 3 wood head turned up and the club felt perfect....
The difference?
3 grams of headweight...

 

[need_my_wedge]

From memory youtubers Rick Shiels and James Robinson released videos a while back, to be fair testing different shafts on drivers.

Conclusions were that performance and numbers were hardly affected if at all.

I’ve got a friend in Japan who a has a 7x stiff shaft in his driver. I tried hitting it on a couple of holes, could not square the face at impact to save my life, the ball was always heading somewhere between 90 & 45 degrees sideways with a middle face impact every time. Back to a “regular” stiff flex and I can keep it reasonably straight.

Different shaft weights, flex and kick points absolutely have different affects in ball striking, and will be different for everyone when combined with individual swing mechanics. I couldn’t get on at all with the Tensei stiff that came in my Cobra driver, was the best option available during my fitting. I switched it with the Kurokage shaft from my old M2, both stiff flex 65 but it’s night and day in the swing. Likewise in my irons, previous irons had XP stiff 95 gram, tried them in the new irons, OK, but then tried UST Mamiya 95 gram recoil graphite shafts, same weight but a completely different feel in the swing, a much better feel all round and have been a revelation. Of course my swing may have improved too but different shafts most definitely do feel different and will affect my swing.

 

[Captain_Black.]

Pros are probably not the best people to show the differences as they can adapt more quickly than the rest of us.

Someone with a higher swing speed could make a softer lighter shaft work.

I’d challenge anyone with an average swing speed who doesn’t believe there is a difference in shafts, to go hit a heavy x-stiff and a light soft shaft back to back and tell me there was no difference.

I've watched the UTube videos of Rick Shiels & James Robinson experimenting with different shafts, but they were using drivers & their swing speeds are about 110 mph, where as mine is about 85mph
They can swing slower, but I can't swing faster.

I know for a fact through my recent experience that a too heavy a shaft makes it difficult for me to launch the ball from the fairway.
The bit that has me puzzled is how a supposed regular shaft in the Callaway Mavrik is 65g, yet a supposed Senior shaft in the Ping G425 is 70g
Doesn't make any sense.
I'd have thought the stiffer the flex, the higher the weight.
I need to speak to a good club fitter who understands this stuff.

 

[jim8flog]

I know for a fact through my recent experience that a too heavy a shaft makes it difficult for me to launch the ball from the fairway.
The bit that has me puzzled is how a supposed regular shaft in the Callaway Mavrik is 65g, yet a supposed Senior shaft in the Ping G425 is 70g
.

The shafts I have seen in the Mavrik tend to be shafts that play on the stiffer side of the quoted flex, Pings own shaft tend to play on the softer side.

 

[Imurg]

I've watched the UTube videos of Rick Shiels & James Robinson experimenting with different shafts, but they were using drivers & their swing speeds are about 110 mph, where as mine is about 85mph
They can swing slower, but I can't swing faster.

I know for a fact through my recent experience that a too heavy a shaft makes it difficult for me to launch the ball from the fairway.
The bit that has me puzzled is how a supposed regular shaft in the Callaway Mavrik is 65g, yet a supposed Senior shaft in the Ping G425 is 70g
Doesn't make any sense.
I'd have thought the stiffer the flex, the higher the weight.
I need to speak to a good club fitter who understands this stuff.

As above..there is no standards when it comes to shafts..
Regular iron shafts in steel can vary between 75 and 120 grams, graphite between 40 and 115....
Massive differences.
The Stiff, Regular, Senior designations are purely applicable to that particular range of shafts..same with low/mid/high launch and spin.
The only transferable numbers are weight and torque..and tori's more to do with feel than anything else.
It, truly, is a minefield

 

[TigerBear]

Pros are probably not the best people to show the differences as they can adapt more quickly than the rest of us.

Someone with a higher swing speed could make a softer lighter shaft work.

I’d challenge anyone with an average swing speed who doesn’t believe there is a difference in shafts, to go hit a heavy x-stiff and a light soft shaft back to back and tell me there was no difference.

Good point. Amateurs with a slow swing speed should be nowhere near a heavy X-S shaft and no doubting there will be performance variations in that situation.

I personally use stiff shafts, my golf coach tells me I'm on the cusp of X-S category but when I use my old Ping G10 regular shaft driver, numbers/distance/performance are pretty similar.

 

[Backsticks]

The best thing is to forget about shaft weights or flexes. Your push does not come from the specification of the shaft. If you work on your game, you will be able to sort that. The confusion you describes come from there being no real science behind much of the shaft-spec-is-important industry, and is really just creative fiction than anything with a scientific foundation, let alone, a sufficient physics dimension to translate into a measurable change in your golf performance. In a way, that industry has done you a disservice, and distracted you into a diversion that is delaying and hindering you improving your shots.
If you need a new club, or just want one, buy what ever catches your eye or whatever branding 'story' appeals to you. If not, just play.

 

[Imurg]

The best thing is to forget about shaft weights or flexes. Your push does not come from the specification of the shaft. If you work on your game, you will be able to sort that. The confusion you describes come from there being no real science behind much of the shaft-spec-is-important industry, and is really just creative fiction than anything with a scientific foundation, let alone, a sufficient physics dimension to translate into a measurable change in your golf performance. In way, that industry has done you a disservice, and distracted you into a diversion that is delaying and hindering you improving your shots.
If you need a new club, or just want one, buy what ever catches your eye or whatever branding 'story' appeals to you. If not, just play.

Please...just shut up.

 

[Backsticks]

Please...just shut up.

I appreciate much of the club manufacturing industry, club retailers and pro shops, the club 'fitting, sector, magazines, websites and youtubers rely on maintaining a certain illusion - their business depend on it so their views are not disinterested or scientific. But I think in an open forum like this, we dont need to maintain that illusion or stick to the industry line - we can call it out for what it is. The OPs question is a good example - the rabbit hole of the equipment illusion has taken them off track from improving their golf stroke where it matters : their swing. Not 10g here or there on the shaft.

 

[Captain_Black.]

If you need a new club, or just want one, buy what ever catches your eye or whatever branding 'story' appeals to you. If not, just play.

I did that with the Callaway Mavrik's as in every other club I'm a regular shaft.
It was an expensive mistake as I couldn't launch them.
I am very keen not to repeat the same mistake.
Hence my query on shaft weights