Playing out of turn in matchplay

[chrisd]

In a 4bbb club match against another club yesterday I pulled a tee shot into the trees left which popped out onto the adjoining fairway, which runs parallel and in the same direction as the hole I was playing. With no shot back to my hole I, as is normal if this happens, hit down the fairway I was on down to where the green I'm playing opens up. Incidentally, a player playing the hole I was now on did the reverse and was on my fairway.

So I was down the adjoining fairway now holding up the 2 ball who'd let me hit through after my group let the player on the wrong fairway play his shot. I indicated, best as i could, that I was going to play to the green to get out if the way and didn't detect any opposition. I hit onto the green for 3 and got out of the way of the 2 ball.

From there I 2 putted for a bogey to win the hole and one of their players, clearly cross said, when walking to the next tee, that I should have let the 2 ball play through, (which would have taken an age as they would have had to play to their green and also putt out to given the line I was playing to my green was close to their green) I said that I played ready golf and when I gestured that I was going to play out of turn they didn't appear to object.

Could they have required me to go back and play the shot again

 

[Slab]

Interested to read the correct reply. I'd have thought it would need to have been raised by opponent (that you played out of turn) prior to you putting

 

[backwoodsman]

At that point, no. If you play out of turn, the requirement is that you are asked to re-play the shot before you make any subsequent strokes. You made several more shots.

And anyway, it seems they agreed that you play out of turn - and in doing so, waived any requirement for you to re-play.

All in rule 6.4

 

[rulefan]

I'm not clear on who was playing with whom. Who was 'one of their players'? Was it a pairs match? Did you play before one of your opponents when he was 'away'

The 2 ball had nothing to do with the order you and your opponent played in the match. The order of play only relates to those you are playing with in the group.

 

[chrisd]

I'm not clear on who was playing with whom. Who was 'one of their players'? Was it a pairs match? Did you play before one of your opponents when he was 'away'

The 2 ball had nothing to do with the order you and your opponent played in the match. The order of play only relates to those you are playing with in the group.

As I posted, it was a 4bbb matchplay against another club.
I realise that the pair I played through on the other fairway had nothing to do with our match but just mentioned that our opponents allowed the guy who strayed onto our fairway to play first but objected to me when I did the same.

The main point, I guess, is that if I indicate that I'm going to play out of turn (ready golf) and our opponents dont indicate that they wish me not to do so having been made aware of my intention, do they have the right to ask me to go back and replay the shot simply, imo, because I played a good shot ?

 

[Orikoru]

'Playing out of turn' should be obsolete anyway. If they're really going to push ready golf, then remove any nonsense penalties for 'playing out of turn'. If your ball is on the wrong hole, of course you play it as soon as practicable to get out of their way.

 

[Foxholer]

My view is that once approval is given for you to play out of turn, then they cannot subsequently force a replay. That would be equivalent to other 'two bites at the cherry' situations that are not allowed. But, for certainty, YOU need to be certain that they have actually 'approved' it, not simply assume it.

 

[Foxholer]

'Playing out of turn' should be obsolete anyway. If they're really going to push ready golf, then remove any nonsense penalties for 'playing out of turn'. If your ball is on the wrong hole, of course you play it as soon as practicable to get out of their way.

I don't believe 'ready golf' necessarily applies to Matchplay!

 

[gazzadi]

A few years back,before ready golf, my partner and myself were playing in a better ball match-play and the same occurred and our opponents claimed the hole as my partner had played out of turn. We picked up our balls and moved onto the next tee fuming. Our opponents decided that they would check the official ruling on their smartphone and to their surprise it was only a breach of etiquette and they should have asked us to play again.We both agreed to a half and we moved on which seemed the best outcome for both pairs, but given the move to speed the game up with ready golf i am surprised that it was mentioned at all.

 

[BTatHome]

As previously said the two ball has nothing to do with the order of play for your match, so your opponents mentioning them is totally irrelevant, and wrong for them to infer anything.

If it was your turn in your match then there is nothing to worry about.


..... and too late to argue anyway

 

[Orikoru]

I don't believe 'ready golf' necessarily applies to Matchplay!

Well it should.

 

[chrisd]

I agree with most of the views expressed, and particularly the need not to necessarily play ready golf in matchplay as a regular thing as doing so could clearly alter the balance of the hole being played. I think though, that I made it clear I wanted to get out of the other players way asap and had I not done what I did I would have held up play for some time with potentially no different outcome, after all I won the hole with a bogey for our pair.

 

[chrisd]

As previously said the two ball has nothing to do with the order of play for your match, so your opponents mentioning them is totally irrelevant, and wrong for them to infer anything.

If it was your turn in your match then there is nothing to worry about.


..... and too late to argue anyway

It wasn't my turn - I clearly played out of turn but indicated my intention to do so and this wasnt objected to by our opponents.

 

[Foxholer]

Well it should.

When it is of no consequence, perhaps. But seeing what happens when your 'further from the hole' opponents play first is a specific, and often important, part of a Match!

 

[Orikoru]

When it is of no consequence, perhaps. But seeing what happens when your 'further from the hole' opponents play first is a specific, and often important, part of a Match!

In fairness, I'm sure we're not alone in this, but ready golf only really applies when someone is faffing about for ages. If everyone is ready as they should be, we still allow the player who's furthest to play first.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Ready golf doesn’t apply to match play, and for good reason.
I would suggest that for this example, common sense dictated you did as you played Chris.
The only time I would enforce play order in match play would be on the green and for tactical reasons.

 

[chrisd]

In fairness, I'm sure we're not alone in this, but ready golf only really applies when someone is faffing about for ages. If everyone is ready as they should be, we still allow the player who's furthest to play first.

As you should, but in matchplay ready golf is not the order of the day, players faffing around or not. I'm drawing, I hope, a distinction between just playing ready golf and an argument about playing out of order when I indicated that, due to the situation, I wished to play and the opposition only commented about it later and i was asking if whether they had required me to replay the shot having appeared to sanction my play would they be correct.

 

[rulefan]

As I posted, it was a 4bbb matchplay against another club.
I realise that the pair I played through on the other fairway had nothing to do with our match but just mentioned that our opponents allowed the guy who strayed onto our fairway to play first but objected to me when I did the same.

The main point, I guess, is that if I indicate that I'm going to play out of turn (ready golf) and our opponents dont indicate that they wish me not to do so having been made aware of my intention, do they have the right to ask me to go back and replay the shot simply, imo, because I played a good shot ?

Sorry, missed the 4bbb.
If they didn't know you had asked then they could have required to to play again but they must do so immediately. As they didn't, they have no claim

6.4a(2) Opponent May Cancel Player’s Stroke Made Out of Turn.
If the player plays when it was the opponent’s turn to play, there is no penalty but the opponent may cancel the stroke:
• This must be done promptly and before either player makes another stroke.
• If the opponent does not cancel the stroke, the stroke counts and the ball is in play and must be played as it lies.

 

[chrisd]

Sorry, missed the 4bbb.
If they didn't know you had asked then they could have required to to play again but they must do so immediately. As they didn't, they have no claim

6.4a(2) Opponent May Cancel Player’s Stroke Made Out of Turn.
If the player plays when it was the opponent’s turn to play, there is no penalty but the opponent may cancel the stroke:
• This must be done promptly and before either player makes another stroke.
• If the opponent does not cancel the stroke, the stroke counts and the ball is in play and must be played as it lies.

Cheers rulefan! Ultimately it was just a moan from one of their guys, but when my partner said he'd moaned about it i said that I was sorry if he didn't like it as we left the green and he just came back with "you should have let them play through before you played" I told him that they didn't object when I gestured my intent to play so why wait until after the hole was concluded then moan.

We stuffed them 5 and 4 and it raised my concentration level a couple if notches 😉

 

[Swinglowandslow]

'Playing out of turn' should be obsolete anyway. If they're really going to push ready golf, then remove any nonsense penalties for 'playing out of turn'. If your ball is on the wrong hole, of course you play it as soon as practicable to get out of their way.

Cannot agree this one. Your first sentence is a generalised statement, for all golf matches, it seems. It is on this that I take issue.
( as for the OP situation I agree that the rule was waived when he was allowed subsequent shots- in any event, in view of the fairways situation, it's a jobsworth who would insist on invoking the penalty.)
But to return to the" out of turn " rule, in match play it is right and proper to have the rule as it is. Match play has a element of psychology in it, where pressure is increased or relieved on an opponent by use of "who goes first".
It is part and parcel of matchplay and shouldn't be given up.