Playing handicap

[backwoodsman]

Do you have a link to the website?

https://www.desertspringsresort.es/home/golf-club/desert-springs-golf-club/
then scroll to the "Download/View the world handicap system 18 hole" button

 

[wjemather]

https://www.desertspringsresort.es/home/golf-club/desert-springs-golf-club/
then scroll to the "Download/View the world handicap system 18 hole" button

I can see how the chart could be confusing, but it isn't requiring calculation of 95%/85% of the Handicap Index. It is providing a lookup for 100%/95%/85% Playing Handicaps based on the given ranges of handicap indexes.

For example, from the yellow tees for men, if your HI was 14.0, your Course Handicap (100% Playing Handicap) would be 16, 95% would be 15, and 85% would be 13.

 

[backwoodsman]

I can see how the chart could be confusing, but it isn't requiring calculation of 95%/85% of the Handicap Index. It is providing a lookup for 100%/95%/85% Playing Handicaps based on the given ranges of handicap indexes.

For example, from the yellow tees for men, if your HI was 14.0, your Course Handicap (100% Playing Handicap) would be 16, 95% would be 15, and 85% would be 13.

Ahh...

I think I now get it. Seems to me to be a bit of an arse-about-face way of doing it, but I do now get it.

 

[rulefan]

That's not true.
Committees and players should follow the advice of their National Association in the use of the integer or full calculated Course Handicap in the calculation of the Playing Handicap. For GB&I, England, Wales and Ireland will be using the Rounded Course Handicap, whilst Scotland will be using the full calculated Course Handicap.

It seems that Scottish Golf assumed that Scottish players are better at arithmetic than elsewhere in GB&I.

 

[wjemather]

It seems that Scottish Golf assumed that Scottish players are better at arithmetic than elsewhere in GB&I.

Not really: "it is expected that the player will always have ready access to an App or other software to generate the Course Handicap rather than be expected to perform the Playing Handicap calculation themselves." To this end, before transition SG provided standard comps and handicap software to all clubs (to replace the existing mix of ISVs), along with an app for players.

 

[rulefan]

Not really: "it is expected that the player will always have ready access to an App or other software to generate the Course Handicap rather than be expected to perform the Playing Handicap calculation themselves." To this end, before transition SG provided standard comps and handicap software to all clubs (to replace the existing mix of ISVs), along with an app for players.

I must admit I wasn't really appreciative of SG's DofI.

How well is it performing?

 

[Colin L]

What's DofI?

 

[Colin L]

It seems that Scottish Golf assumed that Scottish players are better at arithmetic than elsewhere in GB&I.

In stroke play, there is no arithmetic to be done by players have who have two things only to do: record their course handicap which is available to them on a chart or on their app and submit gross scores. Which is exactly what they had to do pre-WHS. Exact values in calculations are taken care of by software.

Matchplay is different matter in that you do need to know your playing handicap before play but no-one would expect players in a four ball or foursome to start working out 90% of their exact course handicaps in their heads on the 1st tee. In a bounce game, they'll probably just use the rounded course handicap and apply the 90% as they did previously with their UHS playing handicap. The sky won't fall down.

In formal matchplay competitions, however, I would argue that is incumbent on the club either to provide players and sides with their correct playing handicaps or the means of easily finding them out . We already accept the obligation to provide course handicaps through charts and apps as it's unreasonable to expect players to work out HI x Slope ÷ 113. There is, to my mind, an equivalent obligation in matchplay.

And, by the way, it's not that Scottish Golf assumed anything about players. The assumption is about computers. It's a matter of Scotland applying the WHS rules and the other CONGU countries not. The only issue is making sure that players get the information and support they need in order to apply these rules in their golf.

 

[rulefan]

What's DofI?

Remember Rhodesia?

 

[Colin L]

Remember Rhodesia?

Indeed I do. But in what has that to do with Scotland's conforming to the WHS Rules in the matter of not rounding the course handicap when there is a further calculation to be done? It seems to me that it is England, Ireland and Wales that have declared independence in that regard.

I've no idea what the situation is elsewhere in the world. Has anywhere else other than England, Ireland and Wales gone its own way and disregarded the rules?

 

[wjemather]

Indeed I do. But in what has that to do with Scotland's conforming to the WHS Rules in the matter of not rounding the course handicap when there is a further calculation to be done? It seems to me that it is England, Ireland and Wales that have declared independence in that regard.

I've no idea what the situation is elsewhere in the world. Has anywhere else other than England, Ireland and Wales gone its own way and disregarded the rules?

There has been no "disregarding of the rules". WHS has many options built in, and various jurisdictions have simply selected some or none of them. Among other things, and as a whole, CONGU took the following options which diverge from the default configuration: to scale up 9-hole scores (rather than match them), not to use CR-Par in the Course Handicap calculation, have General Play as a player opt-in, and have allowances apply to all field sizes. With regard to other features, CONGU decided that individual unions would "try them out" while the others would take options that they perceived would make transition easier (to accept); these options include MLS and additional acceptable formats (Ireland trialling), and use of the rounded of the Course Handicap in the Playing Handicap Calculation (except Scotland).

 

[Colin L]

I don't recollect the rounding of Course Handicaps being an option in the draft Rules, but it's a long time ago and I don't know where my copy is. Anyway I've probably forgotten. Oddly enough, I was aware of all the other options you mention .... but that's the unpredictable nature of my memory.

Curiously, Rule 6.1 remains unqualified:
... the full calculated value is retained and rounding occurs only after the Playing Handicap calculation.

Ah well, you have ended my fun in trying to assert national superiority in our compliance with rules and the purity of our mathematics.

 

[PNWokingham]

Without having read the rule book and going through the above, i didn't realise Scotland had slightly different rules

My understanding (i guess just for England) has been HI, adjust for tee of course = equalls playing handicap. You would use this is playing with mates etc. If a formal comp (stableford of medal) you adjust by 95%.

I have heard a few people give different oppinions on how to work out matchpaly? Is it 90% of difference of lowest player? Is this done off exact Playing handicap? When guys were off plus handicaps i was told it works differently - i was confuseed then and cannot remember what was siad?

 

[rulefan]

Without having read the rule book and going through the above, i didn't realise Scotland had slightly different rules

My understanding (i guess just for England) has been HI, adjust for tee of course = equalls playing handicap. You would use this is playing with mates etc. If a formal comp (stableford of medal) you adjust by 95%.

I have heard a few people give different oppinions on how to work out matchpaly? Is it 90% of difference of lowest player? Is this done off exact Playing handicap? When guys were off plus handicaps i was told it works differently - i was confuseed then and cannot remember what was siad?

Just out of interest, why haven't you read the rule book? Or are you IKEA man? Read the instructions afterwards.

 

[PNWokingham]

Just out of interest, why haven't you read the rule book? Or are you IKEA man? Read the instructions afterwards.

I thought I knew the basics and understood the handicap etc but just read this and a few comments on matchplay over recent months so not totally sure

 

[rulefan]

I thought I knew the basics and understood the handicap etc but just read this and a few comments on matchplay over recent months so not totally sure

Individual matchplay is 100%
Fourball matchplay is 90%

It's all in Appendix C of the book.

https://www.randa.org/en/rules-of-handicapping/2019/rules/appendices/appendix-c

 

[backwoodsman]

I've always assumed it to be a simple principle of that 'you' always work out 'your' playing handicap for the round first - according to the format being played. So it's in calculating 'your' handicap where all the various percentages come in. Only after you've done that, if it's matchplay, do you make a comparison to others and give/receive shots based on the simple difference.

 

[Colin L]

I've always assumed it to be a simple principle of that 'you' always work out 'your' playing handicap for the round first - according to the format being played. So it's in calculating 'your' handicap where all the various percentages come in. Only after you've done that, if it's matchplay, do you make a comparison to others and give/receive shots based on the simple difference.

A good assumption.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I've always assumed it to be a simple principle of that 'you' always work out 'your' playing handicap for the round first - according to the format being played. So it's in calculating 'your' handicap where all the various percentages come in. Only after you've done that, if it's matchplay, do you make a comparison to others and give/receive shots based on the simple difference.

And to help in that I carry a print out of the club's single page guide to the PH calc for all standard playing formats. I keep it tucked in my scorecard holder. I whip it out whenever I find myself in debate on any PH calc.