backwoodsman
Tour Winner
https://www.desertspringsresort.es/home/golf-club/desert-springs-golf-club/
then scroll to the "Download/View the world handicap system 18 hole" button
Playing handicap
- Thread starter backwoodsman
- Start date
then scroll to the "Download/View the world handicap system 18 hole" button
wjemather
Well-known member
I can see how the chart could be confusing, but it isn't requiring calculation of 95%/85% of the Handicap Index. It is providing a lookup for 100%/95%/85% Playing Handicaps based on the given ranges of handicap indexes.
For example, from the yellow tees for men, if your HI was 14.0, your Course Handicap (100% Playing Handicap) would be 16, 95% would be 15, and 85% would be 13.
backwoodsman
Tour Winner
Ahh...
I think I now get it. Seems to me to be a bit of an arse-about-face way of doing it, but I do now get it.
rulefan
Tour Winner
It seems that Scottish Golf assumed that Scottish players are better at arithmetic than elsewhere in GB&I.
wjemather
Well-known member
Not really: "it is expected that the player will always have ready access to an App or other software to generate the Course Handicap rather than be expected to perform the Playing Handicap calculation themselves." To this end, before transition SG provided standard comps and handicap software to all clubs (to replace the existing mix of ISVs), along with an app for players.
rulefan
Tour Winner
Colin L
Tour Winner
What's DofI?
Colin L
Tour Winner
In stroke play, there is no arithmetic to be done by players have who have two things only to do: record their course handicap which is available to them on a chart or on their app and submit gross scores. Which is exactly what they had to do pre-WHS. Exact values in calculations are taken care of by software.
Matchplay is different matter in that you do need to know your playing handicap before play but no-one would expect players in a four ball or foursome to start working out 90% of their exact course handicaps in their heads on the 1st tee. In a bounce game, they'll probably just use the rounded course handicap and apply the 90% as they did previously with their UHS playing handicap. The sky won't fall down.
In formal matchplay competitions, however, I would argue that is incumbent on the club either to provide players and sides with their correct playing handicaps or the means of easily finding them out . We already accept the obligation to provide course handicaps through charts and apps as it's unreasonable to expect players to work out HI x Slope ÷ 113. There is, to my mind, an equivalent obligation in matchplay.
And, by the way, it's not that Scottish Golf assumed anything about players. The assumption is about computers. It's a matter of Scotland applying the WHS rules and the other CONGU countries not. The only issue is making sure that players get the information and support they need in order to apply these rules in their golf.
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rulefan
Tour Winner
Remember Rhodesia?
Colin L
Tour Winner
Indeed I do. But in what has that to do with Scotland's conforming to the WHS Rules in the matter of not rounding the course handicap when there is a further calculation to be done? It seems to me that it is England, Ireland and Wales that have declared independence in that regard.
I've no idea what the situation is elsewhere in the world. Has anywhere else other than England, Ireland and Wales gone its own way and disregarded the rules?
wjemather
Well-known member
There has been no "disregarding of the rules". WHS has many options built in, and various jurisdictions have simply selected some or none of them. Among other things, and as a whole, CONGU took the following options which diverge from the default configuration: to scale up 9-hole scores (rather than match them), not to use CR-Par in the Course Handicap calculation, have General Play as a player opt-in, and have allowances apply to all field sizes. With regard to other features, CONGU decided that individual unions would "try them out" while the others would take options that they perceived would make transition easier (to accept); these options include MLS and additional acceptable formats (Ireland trialling), and use of the rounded of the Course Handicap in the Playing Handicap Calculation (except Scotland).
Colin L
Tour Winner
I don't recollect the rounding of Course Handicaps being an option in the draft Rules, but it's a long time ago and I don't know where my copy is. Anyway I've probably forgotten. Oddly enough, I was aware of all the other options you mention .... but that's the unpredictable nature of my memory.
Curiously, Rule 6.1 remains unqualified:
... the full calculated value is retained and rounding occurs only after the Playing Handicap calculation.
Ah well, you have ended my fun in trying to assert national superiority in our compliance with rules and the purity of our mathematics.
Curiously, Rule 6.1 remains unqualified:
... the full calculated value is retained and rounding occurs only after the Playing Handicap calculation.
Ah well, you have ended my fun in trying to assert national superiority in our compliance with rules and the purity of our mathematics.
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PNWokingham
Journeyman Pro
Without having read the rule book and going through the above, i didn't realise Scotland had slightly different rules
My understanding (i guess just for England) has been HI, adjust for tee of course = equalls playing handicap. You would use this is playing with mates etc. If a formal comp (stableford of medal) you adjust by 95%.
I have heard a few people give different oppinions on how to work out matchpaly? Is it 90% of difference of lowest player? Is this done off exact Playing handicap? When guys were off plus handicaps i was told it works differently - i was confuseed then and cannot remember what was siad?
My understanding (i guess just for England) has been HI, adjust for tee of course = equalls playing handicap. You would use this is playing with mates etc. If a formal comp (stableford of medal) you adjust by 95%.
I have heard a few people give different oppinions on how to work out matchpaly? Is it 90% of difference of lowest player? Is this done off exact Playing handicap? When guys were off plus handicaps i was told it works differently - i was confuseed then and cannot remember what was siad?
rulefan
Tour Winner
Just out of interest, why haven't you read the rule book? Or are you IKEA man? Read the instructions afterwards.
PNWokingham
Journeyman Pro
Just out of interest, why haven't you read the rule book? Or are you IKEA man? Read the instructions afterwards.
I thought I knew the basics and understood the handicap etc but just read this and a few comments on matchplay over recent months so not totally sure
rulefan
Tour Winner
Individual matchplay is 100%
Fourball matchplay is 90%
It's all in Appendix C of the book.
https://www.randa.org/en/rules-of-handicapping/2019/rules/appendices/appendix-c
backwoodsman
Tour Winner
I've always assumed it to be a simple principle of that 'you' always work out 'your' playing handicap for the round first - according to the format being played. So it's in calculating 'your' handicap where all the various percentages come in. Only after you've done that, if it's matchplay, do you make a comparison to others and give/receive shots based on the simple difference.
Colin L
Tour Winner
SwingsitlikeHogan
Major Champion
And to help in that I carry a print out of the club's single page guide to the PH calc for all standard playing formats. I keep it tucked in my scorecard holder. I whip it out whenever I find myself in debate on any PH calc.
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