Playing Conditions Calculation

wjemather

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The calculation, if there is one, is badly out of kilter with what’s actually happening then. If it thinks less than 10% of players play to the playing handicap all it’s doing is loading the system with grossly inaccurate figures and inevitably these become part of your best 8 at some point with wildly fluctuating HI. Mine has gone between 10.1 and 11.4 in a month due to poor rounds coming in some if not all due to poor weather affecting how I played and my better scores which were not weather affected dropping out.
Analysing very crudely, due to the nature of handicap calculations and scoring patterns, most players will only have 2 or 3 scores at or better than handicap in their most recent 20 (I have 2), or 10-15%.

Note also, that the calculations are based on Course Handicap, not Playing Handicap, so if you are taking your analysis from competition results, the scores will need to be adjusted.
 
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D

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What data do you have to support your contention that CSS was always moving upward?

If that was the case, then your SSS was not a true reflection and should perhaps have been higher.

Comp results every week would be as much data as was required to see the CSS going up.

Personally I think the SSS was fair, the CSS covered the conditions of the day, usually fairly windy as Silloth is well known for.

This is where the PCC falls down in my view. I couldn't believe it was 0 on Sunday, there was a strong wind and scores were considerable worse than they have been recently when conditions have been pretty benign for the course.

I played as well as I have all season to get round in 75 and certainly expected a better score differential with some help from PCC. My mate who played less than 10 miles away at Southerness described conditions as brutal..
 

Foxholer

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I played as well as I have all season to get round in 75 and certainly expected a better score differential with some help from PCC. My mate who played less than 10 miles away at Southerness described conditions as brutal..
So it's quite possibly 'your fault' that PCC was zero!:whistle:
Neither PCC, nor did CSS, consider 'how well' folk played. It simply compares score differentials on the day to statistical expectation. I suspect the PCC calculation is somewhat 'tighter' than the CSS one, so you should probably expect fewer (and probably smaller) adjustments under WHS than the previous method.
 

patricks148

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Comp results every week would be as much data as was required to see the CSS going up.

Personally I think the SSS was fair, the CSS covered the conditions of the day, usually fairly windy as Silloth is well known for.

This is where the PCC falls down in my view. I couldn't believe it was 0 on Sunday, there was a strong wind and scores were considerable worse than they have been recently when conditions have been pretty benign for the course.

I played as well as I have all season to get round in 75 and certainly expected a better score differential with some help from PCC. My mate who played less than 10 miles away at Southerness described conditions as brutal..
So far in the 30 plus comps I've played so far this year, not one has any adjustment for pcc. I'll have to ask my couple of mates who are Dornoch members what there's have been like as pretty much every comp there used to have a css higher than the Sss and quite often was RO
 

wjemather

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Comp results every week would be as much data as was required to see the CSS going up.

Personally I think the SSS was fair, the CSS covered the conditions of the day, usually fairly windy as Silloth is well known for.

This is where the PCC falls down in my view. I couldn't believe it was 0 on Sunday, there was a strong wind and scores were considerable worse than they have been recently when conditions have been pretty benign for the course.

I played as well as I have all season to get round in 75 and certainly expected a better score differential with some help from PCC. My mate who played less than 10 miles away at Southerness described conditions as brutal..
"Usually fairly windy" is (or should be) accounted for in the Course Rating (and Slope).

Unlike CSS, PCC will not change solely on the basis of a small number of low handicappers playing badly. In addition, the range of expected scores with PCC is significantly wider than the old SSS+buffer margin that basically expected players to be far more consistent than they are, so PCC will be non-zero much less frequently than CSS was.
 

wjemather

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So far in the 30 plus comps I've played so far this year, not one has any adjustment for pcc. I'll have to ask my couple of mates who are Dornoch members what there's have been like as pretty much every comp there used to have a css higher than the Sss and quite often was RO
If CSS was going up in almost every competition, especially in normal conditions, the SSS was very clearly wrong (or everyone's handicaps were too low).
 
D

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If CSS was going up in almost every competition, especially in normal conditions, the SSS was very clearly wrong (or everyone's handicaps were too low).

The last bit in brackets is interesting.

Patricks148 is in the same boat as me with a CH a couple of shots lower under WHS than it was previously.

I'm not a 3 handicapper and never will be, yet all of a sudden I am ?
 

patricks148

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The last bit in brackets is interesting.

Patricks148 is in the same boat as me with a CH a couple of shots lower under WHS than it was previously.

I'm not a 3 handicapper and never will be, yet all of a sudden I am ?
I dare not enter a comp at the moment, just in case I shoot a good score and end up off 2??
 
D

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I dare not enter a comp at the moment, just in case I shoot a good score and end up off 2??

Problem is you could end up off 2 without playing in a comp these days ;)

Don't hole out just in case your mates have entered you for a general play score ?
 

wjemather

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The last bit in brackets is interesting.

Patricks148 is in the same boat as me with a CH a couple of shots lower under WHS than it was previously.

I'm not a 3 handicapper and never will be, yet all of a sudden I am ?
From what you have said, there may be legacy CSS translations being applied to pre-November 2020 scores that are artificially reducing your handicap indexes. However if your most recent 20 scores are all valid and played since November 2020, then your handicaps will be correct, and you are just better than you thought.
 

patricks148

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From what you have said, there may be legacy CSS translations being applied to pre-November 2020 scores that are artificially reducing your handicap indexes. However if your most recent 20 scores are all valid and played since November 2020, then your handicaps will be correct, and you are just better than you thought.
I've had some good scores this year and pretty much have replaced all my 20 scores. But the difference is under the old system, I've been off 5/4 the last 8 years. With only 0.1 cuts and equally as many 0.1 increase and buffers I would have zero chancebof getting to my current index of 2.7. I wasn't a 3 handicap before and I'm still not, just the bad rounds don't count any longer.
 

wjemather

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I've had some good scores this year and pretty much have replaced all my 20 scores. But the difference is under the old system, I've been off 5/4 the last 8 years. With only 0.1 cuts and equally as many 0.1 increase and buffers I would have zero chancebof getting to my current index of 2.7. I wasn't a 3 handicap before and I'm still not, just the bad rounds don't count any longer.
The old handicapping system was supposed to reflect your potential but for lower handicaps (cat 1) it simply didn't work that way because, without a consistent run of good scoring and/or playing in lots of comps where CSS always went up, e.g. scratch opens, you were perpetually anchored by your earlier higher handicap. With WHS, which is an "average best" system, that anchor has gone and your handicap is now much better reflection of your current scoring.
 
D

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Analysing very crudely, due to the nature of handicap calculations and scoring patterns, most players will only have 2 or 3 scores at or better than handicap in their most recent 20 (I have 2), or 10-15%.

Note also, that the calculations are based on Course Handicap, not Playing Handicap, so if you are taking your analysis from competition results, the scores will need to be adjusted.
Under CONGU yes, not under WHS. By it's nature it's an averaging vehicle, so you should be 4/5 out of 20 constantly. I have 5 of my 8 below my current HCI.
 
D

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So far in the 30 plus comps I've played so far this year, not one has any adjustment for pcc. I'll have to ask my couple of mates who are Dornoch members what there's have been like as pretty much every comp there used to have a css higher than the Sss and quite often was RO
Also have 30 scores in, two of the Opens I've played in have had an adjustment, and none in club competitions. SG say the new system is more conservative than the old system. They can say that again, so conservative to be Gavin Williamson in its effectiveness.
 

wjemather

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Under CONGU yes, not under WHS. By it's nature it's an averaging vehicle, so you should be 4/5 out of 20 constantly. I have 5 of my 8 below my current HCI.
You have to bear in mind that a player's scoring pattern is very asymmetrical around their average best. Most players will have a couple of really good scores that bring that average down below the differentials of almost all of their other counting scores; some have one score so good, it's the only one below their average.
 
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Most players will have a couple of really good scores that bring the average down below the differentials of their other counting scores.
Something I'd never given a thought to till now. Just had a flick through about 15 of our most regular players, only one other had 5 below their HCI like me, a number of 4, but three seems to be the go to number. No twos or sixes.

I'd say that's very interesting, but it probably isnt :p:ROFLMAO:
 
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