Playing Conditions Calculation

[OldTomR]

Will the PCC be automatically calculated by WHS and the adjustment made shown accordingly
against the players record.

 

[rosecott]

Yes, the PCC is shown on a column on the player's scoring record on the WHS platform.

 

[OldMate]

Digging up a slightly old thread - does anyone know if PCC specifically takes into account weather conditions (regardless of scoring) or does it only do this by way of looking at the scores entered? We had a reasonable number of scores around or better than ‘net par’ (mainly earlier in morning) but conditions were far more difficult than usual all day and torrential rain made scoring very difficult later in the afternoon (when virtually no low scores came in). Under the old system I’d expect CSS not to have increased because enough of the field would have buffered or better but wondering if PCC looks beyond that and factors in the terrible conditions even if a few players scored well despite the conditions (the formulations I can find online re how PCC is calculated is all fairly vague). Cheers

 

[Old Skier]

Digging up a slightly old thread - does anyone know if PCC specifically takes into account weather conditions (regardless of scoring) or does it only do this by way of looking at the scores entered? We had a reasonable number of scores around or better than ‘net par’ (mainly earlier in morning) but conditions were far more difficult than usual all day and torrential rain made scoring very difficult later in the afternoon (when virtually no low scores came in). Under the old system I’d expect CSS not to have increased because enough of the field would have buffered or better but wondering if PCC looks beyond that and factors in the terrible conditions even if a few players scored well despite the conditions (the formulations I can find online re how PCC is calculated is all fairly vague). Cheers

It can only make a decision based on scores entered and making a decision based on that.

 

[jim8flog]

It is possible to have 2 PCCs for one day but how this would work in practice I do not know

5.6/2 – Circumstances That May Warrant More Than One Playing
Conditions Calculation on a Single Day
Rule 5.6 recommends that only one playing conditions calculation (PCC) is
performed for the day.
However, there may be circumstances that warrant a separate PCC to be
performed for part of the day or for a certain competition. For example, when:
l There is extreme variation in weather on the day.

 

[OldMate]

Thanks both. I also realised after I asked the question that there couldn’t be any other way as it would otherwise then just be up to someone arbitrarily deciding whether to adjust PCC based on their opinion of the weather.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

We had our first +3 on Friday in the wind.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

We had our first +3 on Friday in the wind.

Where do you see the pcc on the published results?

All we see on IG is an x where you used to see the css. Would be good to see what it actually comes up with to compare with what we used to see previously.

 

[rulefan]

Where do you see the pcc on the published results?

All we see on IG is an x where you used to see the css. Would be good to see what it actually comes up with to compare with what we used to see previously.

PCC shows on the WHS portal

 

[Deleted member 3432]

PCC shows on the WHS portal

Found it, cheers.

Got to ask the question why it is not shown on IG comp results or EG app along side players record. Pain in the backside to have to go on WHS portal when the info should be shown on one or both of the other platforms surely...

 

[mikejohnchapman]

Interestingly when I look at the day we had a +3 there was a ladies competition off the red tees but also a single player off the yellow tees. He was given the same PCC adjustment. I thought the PCC referred to the specific tee not all tees?

 

[wjemather]

Interestingly when I look at the day we had a +3 there was a ladies competition off the red tees but also a single player off the yellow tees. He was given the same PCC adjustment. I thought the PCC referred to the specific tee not all tees?

It's a single calculation for the course, taking into account all rounds from all rated tees, and is then applied to all scores from all tees.

 

[rulefan]

Interestingly when I look at the day we had a +3 there was a ladies competition off the red tees but also a single player off the yellow tees. He was given the same PCC adjustment. I thought the PCC referred to the specific tee not all tees?

The word 'Playing' gives a clue. The conditions are encountered by everyone playing, regardless of tees.

 

[Wildboy370]

On this thread does anyone actually know how this is calculated, what formula do they use ? Myself and our club handicap chairperson have asked England Golf and got a reply saying it’s done automatically by the system. Not once have they told us what and how the system does it. I ask as for three weeks at our club due to weather etc out of a playing field of 110 we have had less than 10 make Par or Better and we have not had any PCC. So does PCC think less than 10% of a field breaking par is acceptable or have we a club where 90% of the handicaps are wrong. Since the start of the WHS we have had two days when a PCC has been applied, which frankly is ridiculous. So anyone know what formula is used and in what basis ?..

 

[wjemather]

On this thread does anyone actually know how this is calculated, what formula do they use ? Myself and our club handicap chairperson have asked England Golf and got a reply saying it’s done automatically by the system. Not once have they told us what and how the system does it. I ask as for three weeks at our club due to weather etc out of a playing field of 110 we have had less than 10 make Par or Better and we have not had any PCC. So does PCC think less than 10% of a field breaking par is acceptable or have we a club where 90% of the handicaps are wrong. Since the start of the WHS we have had two days when a PCC has been applied, which frankly is ridiculous. So anyone know what formula is used and in what basis ?..

The formulas themselves have not been published. However, the rules do provide a brief overview of PCC. Essentially it is based on a comparison of the number of players returning scores within, better or worse than their expected range on a given day.

This range is taken from a standard deviation of expected scores, which is calculated individually for every handicap index and from every tee. Naturally the range will be wider for higher indexes and narrower for lower indexes.

In addition, it should be remembered that handicap calculations are based around the Course Rating (and Slope), not Par.

 

[Wildboy370]

The formulas themselves have not been published. However, the rules do provide a brief overview of PCC. Essentially it is based on a comparison of the number of players returning scores within, better or worse than their expected range on a given day.

This range is taken from a standard deviation of expected scores, which is calculated individually for every handicap index and from every tee. Naturally the range will be wider for higher indexes and narrower for lower indexes.

In addition, it should be remembered that handicap calculations are based around the Course Rating (and Slope), not Par.

Thanks for the reply, and there in lies the problem, with WHS they have gone to great length to tell us how everything is calculated except the PCC. And what is returning score within the expected range, what range ? Our course rating is 72.2 with a slope of 135. But this week it was blowing a Gale and raining heavy most of day which had to be a factor in such poor scoring, so why no PCC, just seem wrong.

 

[Deleted member 3432]

The formulas themselves have not been published. However, the rules do provide a brief overview of PCC. Essentially it is based on a comparison of the number of players returning scores within, better or worse than their expected range on a given day.

This range is taken from a standard deviation of expected scores, which is calculated individually for every handicap index and from every tee. Naturally the range will be wider for higher indexes and narrower for lower indexes.

In addition, it should be remembered that handicap calculations are based around the Course Rating (and Slope), not Par.

As I see it the PCC is 0 approx 95 of the time.

Under Congu the CSS was almost nearly always moving upwards and often considerably.

So either the PCC calculation is very different to that of the old CSS or players have suddenly got better (or have got more shots to play with) which seems to be the case looking at the scores at our place this year.

 

[wjemather]

As I see it the PCC is 0 approx 95 of the time.

Under Congu the CSS was almost nearly always moving upwards and often considerably.

So either the PCC calculation is very different to that of the old CSS or players have suddenly got better (or have got more shots to play with) which seems to be the case looking at the scores at our place this year.

Yes, PCC is a completely different calculation. With CSS, players were expected to score close(r) to their handicap far more often than actually happens [edit] and it was often skewed massively by the performance of a relatively small number of cat 1 golfers.

 

[Wildboy370]

The calculation, if there is one, is badly out of kilter with what’s actually happening then. If it thinks less than 10% of players play to the playing handicap all it’s doing is loading the system with grossly inaccurate figures and inevitably these become part of your best 8 at some point with wildly fluctuating HI. Mine has gone between 10.1 and 11.4 in a month due to poor rounds coming in some if not all due to poor weather affecting how I played and my better scores which were not weather affected dropping out.

 

[rosecott]

As I see it the PCC is 0 approx 95 of the time.

Under Congu the CSS was almost nearly always moving upwards and often considerably.

So either the PCC calculation is very different to that of the old CSS or players have suddenly got better (or have got more shots to play with) which seems to be the case looking at the scores at our place this year.

What data do you have to support your contention that CSS was always moving upward?

If that was the case, then your SSS was not a true reflection and should perhaps have been higher.