Playing a practice shot during a competition round

[Orikoru]

If only he'd have said the magic word 'provisional' before hitting the second one, then he'd have been fine!

 

[Crazyface]

As an extreme example, I saw a player in the competition playing by himself and winning a nearest the pin prize. Not saying the player was dishonest, but the Committee is certainly irresponsible. And not to mention bandits (we call it sand-bagging).

Really????

 

[rulie]

Really????

Yes, really!
Our groups play just before the competition. We get to see many Rules breaches in the competition while we're playing and while enjoying our pints overlooking the ninth hole and green. It's hilarious, and frightening!

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Yes, really!
Our groups play just before the competition. We get to see many Rules breaches in the competition while we're playing and while enjoying our pints overlooking the ninth hole and green. It's hilarious, and frightening!

I think the confusing thing for me in your example is how the guy you saw could be playing in a comp by himself…who was marking his card?

But your point is 100%..the ignorance (or willingness to ignore) of some members of my place about relatively simple aspects of the rules is pretty wild. Though on the whole i think as a membership we’re pretty good.

 

[Neilds]

Yes, really!
Our groups play just before the competition. We get to see many Rules breaches in the competition while we're playing and while enjoying our pints overlooking the ninth hole and green. It's hilarious, and frightening!

In the most polite way, have you done anything about the issue? You are very knowledgeable when it comes to the rules so have you offered to put on a rules night or anything? These people might be blissfully unaware that they are breaking the rules and a friendly presentation by someone else might be welcomed.

 

[rulefan]

In the most polite way, have you done anything about the issue? You are very knowledgeable when it comes to the rules so have you offered to put on a rules night or anything? These people might be blissfully unaware that they are breaking the rules and a friendly presentation by someone else might be welcomed.

My County does many Rules presentations for clubs which are very popular. They have a number of qualified referees and mock-up golf courses with all the encumbrances one normally finds on a course.

 

[Swinglowandslow]

If only he'd have said the magic word 'provisional' before hitting the second one, then he'd have been fine!

Just seen this. For discussion sake, I’m not sure I agree.
I don’t think you can call provisional just like that, the same as you can choose ‘stroke and distance’
If there is a chance the first ball is going to be lost or out of bounds, then ,yes, call and play a provisional.
But if your first ball is clearly visible , and known to be in play, then you cannot choose in all honesty, to play a provisional .
If the first ball is located, and not OOB, it has to be the ball in play. You cannot possibly choose to play the provisional.
In the O.P. there is no suggestion that the ball overshooting the green, has possibly become lost or OOB.

 

[Orikoru]

Just seen this. For discussion sake, I’m not sure I agree.
I don’t think you can call provisional just like that, the same as you can choose ‘stroke and distance’
If there is a chance the first ball is going to be lost or out of bounds, then ,yes, call and play a provisional.
But if your first ball is clearly visible , and known to be in play, then you cannot choose in all honesty, to play a provisional .
If the first ball is located, and not OOB, it has to be the ball in play. You cannot possibly choose to play the provisional.
In the O.P. there is no suggestion that the ball overshooting the green, has possibly become lost or OOB.

In the description it says he thinned it through the back of the green, so if there's any trouble there at all he could argue a provisional was justified. I've seen plenty of people hit provisionals with driver when their first one looked 99% fine. They clearly just wanted to hit another one, but that 1% chance it's not fine means you can't really argue.

 

[NearHull]

Just seen this. For discussion sake, I’m not sure I agree.
I don’t think you can call provisional just like that, the same as you can choose ‘stroke and distance’
If there is a chance the first ball is going to be lost or out of bounds, then ,yes, call and play a provisional.
But if your first ball is clearly visible , and known to be in play, then you cannot choose in all honesty, to play a provisional .
If the first ball is located, and not OOB, it has to be the ball in play. You cannot possibly choose to play the provisional.
In the O.P. there is no suggestion that the ball overshooting the green, has possibly become lost or OOB.

I think there is nothing in the rules to stop a player calling a provisional (or indeed putting another ball into play) at any time, irrespective of where or how a ball is lying.
There could be a case for dispute using 1.3 conduct.

 

[rulie]

In the most polite way, have you done anything about the issue? You are very knowledgeable when it comes to the rules so have you offered to put on a rules night or anything? These people might be blissfully unaware that they are breaking the rules and a friendly presentation by someone else might be welcomed.

Another two referees and I did evening sessions several years ago. The current manager is not interested; it's all about reporting how many played, the value of the prize list and the list of winners. He doesn't seek the input or assistance of members, he's a one man show, all about $$.

 

[rulie]

I think there is nothing in the rules to stop a player calling a provisional (or indeed putting another ball into play) at any time, irrespective of where or how a ball is lying.
There could be a case for dispute using 1.3 conduct.

"Might be lost outside a penalty area or might be out of bounds" is required for a provisional. A ball that is visible and laying in the fairway does not meet that requirement and the next ball played cannot be a provisional (regardless of what the player says).

 

[NearHull]

"Might be lost outside a penalty area of might be out of bounds" is required for a provisional. A ball that is visible and laying in the fairway does not meet that requirement and the next ball played cannot be a provisional (regardless of what the player says).

thank you . Does he still have the option of putting another ball into play ….at any time?

 

[rulefan]

thank you . Does he still have the option of putting another ball into play ….at any time?

18.1 At any time, a player may take stroke-and-distance by playing a ball from where the previous stroke was made.

But this does not apply to a ball to be played from where the previous stroke was made when the player announces that they are playing a provisional ball before making another stroke.

 

[D-S]

"Might be lost outside a penalty area or might be out of bounds" is required for a provisional. A ball that is visible and laying in the fairway does not meet that requirement and the next ball played cannot be a provisional (regardless of what the player says).

So if the ball is clearly visible, then the place gets penalised for playing practicing on the course? 5.5a?

 

[rulie]

So if the ball is clearly visible, then the place gets penalised for playing practicing on the course? 5.5a?

I think the more likely ruling would be that the second ball played is now in play under stroke and distance. The original ball would no longer be in play, and playing that original ball would be playing a wrong ball.

 

[rulefan]

So if the ball is clearly visible, then the place gets penalised for playing practicing on the course? 5.5a?

If he continues with that ball isn't the penalty the same?

 

[D-S]

I believe in the original scenario the player just thought it was just a practice stroke and completed the hole with the first/original ball as he was ‘just practicing’.
Unfortunately (sort of) as, I believe, it was Stableford all these penalties seem to add up to just 0 points in the hole, which somehow doesn’t seem enough.
How many practice strokes would it take to become serious misconduct?

 

[mikejohnchapman]

That's very dispiriting. I also think general rules awareness has deteriorated significantly post-Covid, the new cohort that have come into our sport are frequently appalling on the rules and often don't seem to care much.

I think clubs need to take some responsibility here. I know I'm old but when we started to play we were taught the basic rules and etiquette before we were allowed to play in club competitions / matches. We now seem to expect new players to learn the rules and apply them with almost no help. I know some clubs try but most don't. Thus they learn things from their mates and it's not surprising they get things wrong.

 

[D-S]

I think clubs need to take some responsibility here. I know I'm old but when we started to play we were taught the basic rules and etiquette before we were allowed to play in club competitions / matches. We now seem to expect new players to learn the rules and apply them with almost no help. I know some clubs try but most don't. Thus they learn things from their mates and it's not surprising they get things wrong.

I’ve said it before and will say it again, just make R&A level 1 part of the eligibility criteria for winning prize money, similar to x cards from y months.
No point in having an ‘accurate’ handicap which is based on total ignorance of the rules of the game that they are playing. Perhaps its might be not as bad with a lot of drawn competitions, otherwise it’s the blind leading the blind (or signing their cards).